Watch out for Impossible claims about what is hidden

[Tad Carlucci]

It appears to be time, once again, to warn people to watch out for Impossible Claims (SM) about what a cat is hiding.

As an example of What Cannot Possibly Be True I'll use a cat currently on a bid board.

The cat's name says "Hides Bengal Black". The cat shows Foxie Salt & Pepper. Bengal Black is dominant to Foxie Salt & Pepper. It is IMPOSSIBLE for the cat to hide Bengal Black.

Yes, both parents were Bengal Black. So what? It still CAN NOT HIDE Bengal Black. Not only can it NOT hide Bengal Black, this cat, all by itself, with no other information, is sufficient to PROVE that Bengal Black is dominant to Foxie Salt & Pepper and the claim is impossible!

What does it hide? We don't know. It shows Foxie Salt & Pepper, which it received from one parent's hidden fur trait value. The other parent did NOT pass Bengal Black (if it had, the offspring being offered for sale on the bid board would BE Bengal Black). So it hides whatever that other parent hides .. which could also be Foxie Salt & Pepper .. or could be something more recessive than Foxie Salt & Pepper.

So, please, if you're offering a cat for sale, CHECK that your claims are correct! Cats such as the one I saw on the bid board are False Advertising, pure and simple. Perhaps the seller does not know better.

But, Buyer Be Ware! Just because a cat or the owner claims something, DO NOT BELIEVE IT! Check what you can see of the Pedigree, and check Saga's charts, before you make any purchase.

[Olgita Ruby]

Thank you! I also often see cats for sale saying they hide this and that and where that information comes from is unknown or wrong if to look at dominance charts. Better to double check always and to look at pedigree.

[Dimpz Morane]

I like to check the pedigree on cats/boxes before I purchase, and not go by various claims of this and that trait hidden. However I see many cats on sale, showing no pedigree, this has been hidden from view, seller has not checked Enable In World Pedigree Link or not provided a pedigree.

No pedigree - is a no buy for me

What is the seller hiding

If you are no sure of hidden traits, you can always im or leave a notecard for the seller asking for more information or proof, as well as following Tad's advice and check The Dominance Charts

[Kayla Woodrunner]

You can always at least see mom and pop by hitting "touch" when touching or right clicking the kitty. That's always better than nothing.

Sellers do need to familiarize themselves with Saga's chart
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B0_Wqb33nVpnZWYwNGViMGMtYWU4ZS00ZjAyLTk4OTctMzk2YzljODliMDhm#

and also breeding precepts like

A. each parent has 1 shown trait and 1 hidden trait.

B. Each parent only passes 1 trait, either the shown or hidden trait.

C. The most dominant trait shows. The other trait becomes the hidden trait for the baby

D. if Parent A + Parent B have the same fur and get a different fur baby, then baby's coat has to be a hidden fur of Parent A and/or Parent B AND baby cannot pass the shown fur of Parent A or Parent B. It does not matter if the grandparents, greatgrandparents or great-greatgrandparents don't show the fur or if someone tells you the line is "pure". It is possible for a fur to be hidden for generations. (substitute any trait for the word "fur")

[Tad Carlucci]

I wrote a page on the Wiki which explains it and has graphs to aid the description.

http://kittycatsaddicts.com/wiki/Breeding_Basics

[Vrem Vaniva]

Thank you, Tad. I like your Wiki page! Info like that is needed.
I often see Impossible Claims -- or wierd labels such as ... stating that a Foxie Salt & Pepper is "Ocicat Black OS." So what if its mom was an ocicat black -- you'll never get Oci Black from a Foxie Salty (that is, it won't throw the gene).

But I keep hearing from some people that they believe in "throwbacks," honest to Pete. There is a bizarre notion circulating that somehow the left-behind dominant traits can come back to haunt us. I hear things like "I'll check the parents to make sure it's a pure Aby Dark Chocolate." Well, what if one parent is a Genesis Smokey? That would be normal -- and at this time, all Aby Dark Chocolates probably have "pure" fur. But i have seen people be wary when they see a more dominant trait in the background. I hope all will read your Wiki page and learn the basics, especially the 3 points that Kayla mentions.

This phrase "in the background" can be deceptive, but it is not as much of a lie as , for example, "MOF ears hiding Wild Tiger." I don't think people intend to "lie" when they label their kittens. It's just that not everyone is clear on what's possible -- and then, we all make mistakes (one mistake per year, maybe? ahaha). So ... when buyiing a kitty, one needs to be informed -- and not rely on the box label, or even an auctioneer's analysis.

[Ivy Norsk]

It seems to be an on-going thing with Bengal Blacks. People seem to want bengal blacks to be recessive to foxie salt and pepper - it's like a mythology. Of course it's completely wrong, but people won't let go, and seem to really love the fur, which is lovely. Last night, I saw a Foxie S&P marked to an extraordinarily high price (Wayyyyy beyond the market value of the cat) because of "hides bengal black". That cat is either doomed to not sell (I hope) or some poor soul will have lost a lot of money.

I don't know when the word is going to get around or the mythology will quit. We can just keep saying the truth.

[Tad Carlucci]

Oh, it'll sell. Then, a few weeks later, we'll get a question asking what they're doing wrong because they can't seem to pull the Bengal Black out of the Salt & Pepper offspring.

What gets me almost as upset and a Salt & Pepper Hiding Bengal Black (which I consider as a criminally fraudulent claim) is a Salt & Pepper Bengal Black Offspring (which I consider only criminally false advertising).

[Lostime Resident]

The sad thing is I saw the cat as well and did not IM the persone who was selling the cat, I think the persone did not know better and if we see things like it, we should help them to learn and know better.

Some days I just want to be by myself, it was one of those days!

Im sorry I did not help!

[Easnadh Swansong]

(08-07-2014 01:20 PM)Lostime Resident Wrote:  The sad thing is I saw the cat as well and did not IM the persone who was selling the cat, I think the persone did not know better and if we see things like it, we should help them to learn and know better.

Some days I just want to be by myself, it was one of those days!

Im sorry I did not help!

You are not the only person who goes through moments like that. *hugss*