MP vs Inworld shops

[Tad Carlucci]

Exactly. It can be used to generate traffic to a store without actually offering the product. And that was the same problem which eventually snowballed out of control elsewhere. In fact, there is no requirement that the produce EVER be on display, if it even is for sale; one simply needs to own it and place a working link into the object.

The question is simply how fast will the system become so filled with cruft as to become unusable. And, the answer to that depends not upon the design but upon the psychology of the various communities.

[Ivy Norsk]

Tad, there are lots and lots of kittyboxes for sale, and no shortage of good ones. While I see what you're saying - that the pedigrees can be gamed in the way that you describe - do you really think that is happening in anything but a very very small percentage of cases? I suspect that most of the delay in resetting a pedigree comes from the seller not realizing that the cat has sold, from not being inworld and such, before resetting it. Also, I think that gaming the pedigrees in the way that you describe would fail to generate sales, since the advertised cat isn't present and people would leave the store in disgust, not purchase a different cat.

And would you really think that given a small percentage of abuse, that this would outweigh the benefit to buyers and sellers alike for the very highly automated advertising and location service that these pedigrees provide?

[Rene Marseille]

(03-08-2016 08:44 AM)Tad Carlucci Wrote:  Exactly. It can be used to generate traffic to a store without actually offering the product. And that was the same problem which eventually snowballed out of control elsewhere. In fact, there is no requirement that the produce EVER be on display, if it even is for sale; one simply needs to own it and place a working link into the object.

The question is simply how fast will the system become so filled with cruft as to become unusable. And, the answer to that depends not upon the design but upon the psychology of the various communities.

Honestly I don't think that will happen, if people use it the wrong way, to generate traffic without offering the product, they risk a ban. And since the profilers are not free, not many will risk that. I do random teleportings sometimes and until now I haven't seen anyone who does that. At the beginning I saw people who didn't know that their cats were listed on a web market, and listed cats that were not for sale. I told them once, and now they use it the right way. Also the people who search for KittyCatS on the Web Market can warn them, if things like that happen. But I do see your point and I thought about all these before I made this product

[Tad Carlucci]

Which means the system not only depends upon the varying psychological factors of the various users, but upon both your commitment and motivation to police it, and upon some 'hassling' others on your behalf.

Admittedly, having you police it is better than not doing having you do so (which was the choice others made). But it opens you to claims of bias: at which point do you declare infractions 'innocent', and at which point do you declare them otherwise and revoke the ability to use your system?

Your approach does not scale well. While you have just a few users, it's not a problem to 'randomly teleport' to check. But, if your system should grow to become the dominant means of marketing cats, it will become impossible for you to visit a statistically significant number. And that's assuming you choose to keep trying. What happens when you become bored with doing so, or move on to another project?

Your system, then, depends mainly upon complaints.

Those complaints can be directed from one member of the community to another, which promotes ill feelings within the community; or they can be directed to you, again depending upon your continued interest and commitment, and, again, depends upon your decisions as to what does and does not constitute a 'fair' decision.

So, sure, the system works 'well enough' now. But it's rife with down-stream problems and the only way I can see those problems being avoided is for your system to remain relatively unpopular and little-used.

[Rene Marseille]

(03-08-2016 10:17 AM)Tad Carlucci Wrote:  But, if your system should grow to become the dominant means of marketing cats, it will become impossible for you to visit a statistically significant number. And that's assuming you choose to keep trying. What happens when you become bored with doing so, or move on to another project?

People who use the Web Market can always report it to me, I don't need to do it myself. And it is very easy to prove if someone misuses the product. I just need to find them and teleport to their listings on the Web Market. It's also easy to see if someone did it intentionally or not. So I don't think this is or will be a problem in the future.

[Callie Cline]

hi christin,

in reply, we hear from the community that Both ways, inworld and marketplace are great ways to shop. depends on what you like.

inworld there are tons of markets, stores, booths, bid boards, daily auctions, parties, etc. people get super creative and seem to really have a lot of fun ways to shop.

on the marketplace there are some amazing sellers with all sorts of cats too! many sell inworld and in the marketplace, we've heard customers say they enjoy both ways, often it depends on people's moods, etc.

additionally, on this forum there is an area devoted to the market where you can find people advertising their cats there too! i think "better" would be dependent on what you're looking for etc.

good luck as you shop! the community is really diverse.

[Arwen Swordthain]

(03-08-2016 10:17 AM)Tad Carlucci Wrote:  Which means the system not only depends upon the varying psychological factors of the various users, but upon both your commitment and motivation to police it, and upon some 'hassling' others on your behalf.

Admittedly, having you police it is better than not doing having you do so (which was the choice others made). But it opens you to claims of bias: at which point do you declare infractions 'innocent', and at which point do you declare them otherwise and revoke the ability to use your system?

Your approach does not scale well. While you have just a few users, it's not a problem to 'randomly teleport' to check. But, if your system should grow to become the dominant means of marketing cats, it will become impossible for you to visit a statistically significant number. And that's assuming you choose to keep trying. What happens when you become bored with doing so, or move on to another project?

Your system, then, depends mainly upon complaints.

Those complaints can be directed from one member of the community to another, which promotes ill feelings within the community; or they can be directed to you, again depending upon your continued interest and commitment, and, again, depends upon your decisions as to what does and does not constitute a 'fair' decision.

So, sure, the system works 'well enough' now. But it's rife with down-stream problems and the only way I can see those problems being avoided is for your system to remain relatively unpopular and little-used.

Let us not also forget economics, websites cost money to maintain and people should realise that once the creator is no longer generating a profit its very likely that he will simply stop OR start charging people to use the extras in a product they have already purchased.
One person having overall control of the secondary market is not a good thing, many have tried over the years and failed as will be the case with this current attempt to control how cats are sold.

[Melodie Jigsaw]

wow - I never saw this as an attempt to "control the secondary market" but rather as a tool that can be used - or not. It serves me as a locator service and nothing more. Yes, sometimes the cats you TP to are missing - I assume they've been sold as there are usually many others still there and present. And, honestly, using this system has gotten me to stores/sims I wouldn't have usually gone to - where I've spent way too much time browsing other kitties for sale that are NOT listed on the site (okay - some came home with me too...

What am I missing? Not sure where all the attacks are coming from. Yes, there are all kinds of "potential" issues that MIGHT happen - but saying the tool is bad because of them is like saying cars are bad and we shouldn't use them because there might be wrecks, injuries etc. It's a tool - all tools can be misused - that doesn't make them bad

[Tad Carlucci]

History from other breedables has been rife with abuse, but the bigger problem was simply lack of attention. People tend to forget they have objects out, cats sell, people change their minds and move their shops or shuffle their stock around. Over time, these minor errors build up until they dominate the web site.

This is not to say such systems are inherently 'bad' or 'good'. The point is, like the Marketplace, and even like in-world marketing, they have problems. But, unlike the Marketplace, they often don't have a huge staff available 24x7 to monitor the system and correct problems as they occur.

As a value statement, then, I don't see them as 'better' .. simply 'different' .. with different advantages, different problems, and different points of failure. Unfortunately, it's those points of failure which are often side-stepped, if not ignored, until the system collapses.

[Rene Marseille]

(03-09-2016 07:42 AM)Melodie Jigsaw Wrote:  wow - I never saw this as an attempt to "control the secondary market" but rather as a tool that can be used - or not.

I know, right? Nobody is trying to control the market but trying to make things easier for breeders. But arwen can wait another 2 years and refuse to use it because "oh he will stop soon" or "oh he will charge us one day" or "oh the system will collapse". And I can tell you, after 2 years you will still wonder that these things didnt happen.

(03-09-2016 07:42 AM)Melodie Jigsaw Wrote:  What am I missing? Not sure where all the attacks are coming from.

Just haters, nough said! Luckily there are not many of them.

(03-09-2016 08:02 AM)Tad Carlucci Wrote:  History from other breedables has been rife with abuse, but the bigger problem was simply lack of attention. People tend to forget they have objects out, cats sell, people change their minds and move their shops or shuffle their stock around. Over time, these minor errors build up until they dominate the web site.

Tad, I appreciate that you think about these problems. As said before, the website removes the listings if the profilers are removed from sl. So for example if people move their stores, the profilers will be removed too, that means they will be removed from the website. Since rezzed prims in sl cost money, nobody will forget them easily.