Cat Flipping

[Pancake Littlepaws]

(01-22-2016 04:41 PM)Lostime Resident Wrote:  I sometimes ask a third person to buy a cat for me due to the fact many know I hoard megas and would if I approach them ask a crazy price, many times I can get the cat cheaper for using a third person to buy the cat for me.

Wait wait you horde mega's to? "adds you to the list of names of people to watch out for right under Tabbies name"



I never thought about people marking up the price of a cat just because of who you are. Hmm Though most the kitties I get are from markets or auctions. I dont think except once or twice from friends. Ever bought a kitty directly from someone.

[wildblueviolet Sunset]

1) It is free Market.
2)You can't control other choices and actions.
(If you think you can you may very well walk around walk life irritated or angry a lot.)
On occasion people with "voices" in our community try to or manage or to impose their own opinions, and "rules" on other people within there sphere of their influence. How much you agree with the them, or wish to integrate their opinion is your choice. While they may make the rules in there own market or auction they can not control all of Kittycats.
That reality is once someone buys someone else's cat whether we like it or not NO ONE can control whether they copy it, menagerie it, or breed till whiskers fall off; or resell it. I basically almost always resell a cat with a "new, hot" a trait and lower trait count and once I get some kittens with the "new, hot" trait and more traits - whether I bred it myself OR bought it. I'm not going menagerie a cat with in demand trait(s) nor do I wish to make several boxes of cats with low trait counts, so I do and will continue resell it without feeling the need to apologize. I'd rather sell the that cat to someone who is eager to get that trait and make back some of the money I invested in the the new trait. I look at it as a win-win situation. I buy lot cats; more than I will ever breed. On occasion I realize I'm never going to breed a certain cat, then If I think it will sell, I resell it at a price that the market will bear. (I sometime making a profit, sometime I lose a bit of money but have less of a loss than sending it to menagerie for 50 kitty cat dollars) . I enjoy breeding kittycats. I try to keep markets moving by buying and selling and keeping value of the cats up. My intention to make kittycats a hobby that at is either low cost, supports it self (or best case scenrio) makes a profit.

[Keltora Edenbaum]

Very intense discussion I've read through here. Wow.

My feelings on the subject are pretty simple. I used to breed kittycats quite awhile back. The one thing I always tried to remember is it is supposed to be something special, something fun, something that brings a person joy. It stopped being fun for me so I simply stopped. I kept my four kittys that meant the most to me, and that was that. When I went out of business I sold all the kittycats in my inventory whether I had purchased them elsewhere or came from my own cattery. I didn't find anything wrong with this and I certainly didn't feel bad for doing this since I didn't want to send really beautifully traited kittycats to the menagerie. I wanted to see them go to people who would make use of them and find joy in them.

I never saw this as something dishonest and I still don't.

When I did breed kittycats, I never purchased a kitty from another breeder with the intention of selling said cat. I always purchased with the intent of future projects and ideas I had for my own kittys, etc. I personally don't think I could ever feel really great if I did go out and purchase someone's cat with the intent of reselling it simply for profit, but that really is just my own way of thinking. Although I wouldn't feel right doing it, it doesn't make it a dishonest practice. Each person has a different set of moral standards they go by and we are all individuals like the beautiful kittycats we are blessed enough to have.

When someone purchases one of my kittycats or if I give it to them I do it with the knowledge it is now their cat and they can do what they please with the cat. I always hope the kitty brings them joy and some happiness, but I do it with the understanding they now own the cat. This is just my take on things.

I guess that is all I have to say so yea.

[LyricaBlues Resident]

(01-18-2016 07:54 AM)phoenixfire01 Resident Wrote:  For those of you know don't know what the term Cat Flipping means, it means buying someone else's cat (live or boxed) and then selling it on, usually for a much higher profit and usually without breeding any kitties from live flipped kitties first.

Cat Flipping is frowned upon by most if not all Auctioneers (they really don't like that) and most Kitty based Sims don't much like it either especially when it comes to bidboards and the such. Most sims have it as part of their agreement when you rent (some have it on their websites). I know many Auctioneers who don't like flip kitties in any situation and look very dimly on those who are flipping cats.

Your probably wondering who am I to open my mouth about something like this ....... here's the back ground. I have been breeding for a few months when I put my first Mega in an Auction. It was a Pink and White so of course it sold (for less than 4k). Some time later I was walking around the same Sim and came across my cat, still boxed and priced at 13k.

Kitty flipping is a very dishonest way to trade. It takes a breeders hard work to create that kitty and then for them to pay out for the Auction / Bidboard / Store for someone then to come, buy that kitty as cheep as chips (English saying) and then resell for much more. This makes you dishonest, making money off of another breeders hard work. It's also not very nice for the original breeder to find that cat up for sale / bid / offer and a considerably higher price.

What I am trying to say in a sentence or two is ........ Please stop kitty flipping, I makes a mockery of the breeder and makes you look dishonest. (packs soap box away).

Hope you all have a great day, hope you enjoy breeding and hope you get the kitties you wish for

Well said...and I do love your English expressions LOL...you know that

[Arwen Swordthain]

Its unfortunate but I think flipping will always occur. As has been pointed out sometimes people get others to buy cats for them, maybe they can't be at an auction but want a cat.
I have spotted in my own pedigrees that cats I have sold at auction are still boxed and no longer owned by the person I sold them to. Spotted one just a few days ago a pretty Chat Cat Grey & White sporting Soft Fold Boo Boo ears now owned by an auctioneer who wasn't at the auction I sold it at.
Was it flipped or bought for them? I have no idea and unless you see your cat being sold as Red did its hard to know just from an ownership change exactly what occured.
But it happens and it always will. Once we sell our cats we lose control over what happens. Doesn't make it right or acceptable, just makes it life.

[brittanybelike Resident]

winter's response
lmaooo

[Zarabeth Langer]

As everyone who knows me knows, I'm an unashamed kittycat hoarder. That said, obviously I have no dog (or cat) in this fight. And yes, it does seem to be moving from discussion to fighting. So here's my two cents.

I don't price flip, but I don't think it's a huge problem in the community. Yeah, it's a crappy thing to do if done as SavageRose described, but I have been at an auction where someone who knew nothing about kittycats would NOT listen to anyone about the price she was asking for her collectibles. She had gotten quite a few collectible cats from a friend who was leaving sl. She was selling these cats starting at 1k each. The auctioneer BEGGED her to stop that and start the cats at a higher price. I tried to tell her myself and I know others did also but she was adamant that she would sell these cats starting at 1k each. What could people be expected to do in that case? I'm sure some of them flipped those cats. I can't imagine why they wouldn't in that case.

If your whole cat 'breeding program' is flipping cats well, that's frowned upon, and a lot of kittycats people will not be fond of you. On some sims that is a bannable offense. If you cat flip on one of those sims and get banned, that's on you, not the sim owner. Read the rules of the secondary market sims BEFORE doing business there.

I used to sell cats regularly but I got disheartened by those who cheat, those who use alts to raise prices of their cats, those who tell lies and start rumors to get others to drop the price of their cats. In my opinion these problems are far more of a problem in the community than cat flipping.

tl;dr cat flipping is frowned upon but there are worse things going on.

[VeetMesser Resident]

Here is My 2 cents. I havent' read through every thing yet but........

Flipping is part of the business. And of Business In RL and SL. Not in all business but Most. I'm an RL Business woman and yes i do Flip products. now 95% to 98% of my products are either handmade or handmade from materials that others make or they are products that I added or strengthened in some way or form.
The other 2% - 5% of products that I sale I have done nothing to. But that I buy at wholesale or low sale prices and or in bulk or ect. But I have them there for My customers. For the reasons of: One Stop shopping sort of, the product is in the area of my product line, I can't handmake that Item but my customers are looking for it, or the item is always carried at a retailer in my line of business.
If the item retails for $20 - $25 at all other stores but i get it for $2 [because I purchased it in Bulk or because i purchased it in another Time Zone that can take a month or months to get but My customer can now get it in say 2 to 5 days depending on their shipping choice. Convenience cost. (think 7-11 or Starbucks vs Brewing at home)
I'm not going to sale a $20 - $25 for $2. I am trying to make money here. I do have bills to pay and children to feed and take care of. But at the same way I'm not going to resale it for less than the $20 [Unless I need Money faster] I'm not going to start crashing the market on that product.
But also i'm not "Not" Going to buy a product because it is too cheap either.

Why wouldn't you purchase a kitty to flip it because it is to low? Shoot that person selling it for too low might really need the L$ to pay tier, oh feed their other kitties or wants to buy a gift for someone and they need the L$ What am I going to say no i not buying your kitty it too low so now you can't feed your kitties, buy that gift or pay your rent on your shop or home. Now if they sold it for the price it should be at maybe I can't afford it. Say they selling a $5,000 kitty for $1,000 but I only have $2,500. and I got bills to. So i'm going to buy that kitty for $1,000. They now have some L$ and I might even send them some more in private if i can depending on bills i have. Now here is something to look at.
Now I might have bought the kitty for my self. But now due to bills or helping others out or what ever the reason i can't afford to keep the kitty. [I have had this happen] Or I buy the kitty for someone else thinking they needed it [but they already got what they wanted or no longer needed it] had this happen before. I bought the kitty and i foudn something better or closer to what i'm wanting to do. I'm not going to make sure i hold that cat collecting dust with my investment into it. nor am I going to sale the kitty at $1,000 what I paid for it. HERE IS WHY!!!! #1 The Kitty is worth L$5k, i'm not goign to bring everyone else prices down worked hard on their kitties. Totally seen this happen. Where I worked hard on a kitty But someone else needed money and sold the kitty for cheap, or someone gave a great deal to a friend and sold it for less and then when someone makes me an offer of way lower because they saw it else where in many places for less. Seriously

#2 It might not sale right away. In the mean time i'm paying rent and taken my time and or funds to advertize.

#3 there is recouping the loss on other Kitties and boxes I loss out on. It is a chance to still pay some bills that i wouldn't' be able to do so with the current kitties that might or might not sale.


*Timing is one thing. Sitting in an Auction to purchase a Kitty takes time. Advertizing that kitty takes time.
* Renting a stall cost L$
*Worrying maybe that those that would have bought the kitty for $5k if it was up for sale after their pay day saw the kitty sale for $1k and now think they must get the kitty for $1k but dont' know in the time that has passed by I have had to pay out ore tier and advertizing or ect. [i hope this makes since] Even if I try to recoup just the funds paid out? and my time.
And where do you even draw the line. some would think if you buy a set at a low price from a very good line or any line from a good breeder or even any price and then getting your boy and girl for further breeding and then saling off all the others but you didn't breed the line. you should sale an offspring for the going rate of L$5k if you only paid L$2.5 for each Mom and Dad. Some may call it flipping but I don't and i'm not going to devalue someone elses kitties still out on the market saling for K$5 because I paid way less for them.

NOW HERE is where Flipping I think is TOTALLY WRONG WRONG WRONG!
The Ultimate wrong is when Say a newbie or someone without knowledge is TOLD something is only worth say $1K when they know DARN WELL it is worth $5k or more so that they can buy it or have someone else go buy it for the $1k just to flip it for $5k or more. That is Totally Messed up. [I have had this sort of happen to me when i was new and i have seen it happen to others and also STOPPED it from happening to others] Naughty Naughty and Shame on them.

The other no good flipping is Gifts!!! Like say you give a Kitty to someone down on their luck or needs some chearing up or give a kitty to someone that says they can't afford a kitty or even a certain kitty that they would LOVE to have. And that person turns around and FLIPS it for a HUGE PROFIT! or any profit [seen this happen ofcoarse] And I have seen the other person wrap it up in a pretty box just for the other person to have the kitty in thier shop within a few hours. Totally wrong. But say if they want to resale the kitty a few months later. I see nothing wrong with it. I'd rather see someone sale a nice gift to feed thier kitties if they can then have 20 kitties get sick.
And I have also seen where in a few weeks or maybe it was days a person lets the gift giver know they are in need of cash and woudl like to sale the kitty. Too me this is fine. I have seen this a few times. Even where the gift giver bought the kitty that they gave from the person they gave it to. It was a win win. They helped each other out.

Shoot I have even had my kitties bought and flipped. Was I upset? Nope. A bit jealous? Not going to lye yes. hahahaha but good for them. I needed the L$ then not after everyones paydays came around. I wanted it then and paid up some bills and went shopping and found some good deals on sale that would not have been after everyone got their pay day. lol!
If one doesn't want to have a kitty flipped then there are a few things they can do. Sale the Kitty privately at a lower price to someone that doesn't want to flip the kitty and wants it for breeding. But there is still no guarantee
Or let it be known you are selling at a certain price to give others a chance at something nicer at a cheaper price.But there is still no guarantee
On put the kitty up for sale to people you know are not going to flip it. But there is still no guarantee


Flipping is part of business not just in SL but in RL as well.

AND one last note for thought They May NOT BE FLIPPING the kitty?!?
It might be an advertising move.

Here is 2 for ya:

I have a La Girafe! I didn't breed it I earned it. It cost me K$15,000 but it is priced at L$77,777 (I like the #7 ) If you do the math of buying the kitties [some of them high high priced kitties, that i never made my money back from] feeding all the kitties and the other cost of vits tier happy snacks and time just to get enough kitties to get the K$'s to get the La Girafe I'm under pricing it and then if you add in the pay on the time it took to sort through and then turn in those kitties????? Man oh man i'm under pricing My La Girafe. Man it was alot of work to get that beloved La Girafe LOLOL! Some will totlaly know what i'm talking about and others won't. Trust me it was alot of work in so many ways.
No i'm not trying to sale the kitty. It is there to maybe bring people to my spot and they might buy another kitty. It is there to be a convo piece about this CRAZY woman thinks she going to get that price for it?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! LOL! and they might go i dont' beleive you lets go see it. and they might buy one of my other kitties or a kitty of one of my neighbors. I Love helping others
But Also it VERY PRETTY to LOOK at

And Next I have Bought certain Kitties for charity events or on the low to help others out or what ever the reason and yes I put them in the some for a crazy amount for the same advertising reasons as above. But now one going to pay $15k for a $10k kitty that i paid what ever i paid for it.

Some kitties people set for the clsoe price of what they are going for for them either to not sale while they think what they are going to do with the kitty but wouldn't mind if it did sale or changed their mine or whatever.

But if any of these sale for a crazy amount so be it.

In My book Flipping is part of the deal. except if you are scamming someone to do so. Or being a ugly mean greedy ungrateful gift taker person. or lying to get a gift to flip person.

Happy Breeding to All

[Tad Carlucci]

Wow.

Talk about TL;DR; ;-)

[VeetMesser Resident]

(01-22-2016 06:48 PM)JenniferShelby Resident Wrote:  

(01-22-2016 04:41 PM)Lostime Resident Wrote:  I sometimes ask a third person to buy a cat for me due to the fact many know I hoard megas and would if I approach them ask a crazy price, many times I can get the cat cheaper for using a third person to buy the cat for me.
I have seen at least 1 maybe 2 others that have someone else buy the Megas for them.

Wait wait you horde mega's to? "adds you to the list of names of people to watch out for right under Tabbies name" << -- LOL!



I never thought about people marking up the price of a cat just because of who you are. Hmm Though most the kitties I get are from markets or auctions. I dont think except once or twice from friends. Ever bought a kitty directly from someone.

Yep they Do and the Price can go up but i have mostly seen the price go down because of who they are.