Cat Flipping

[SavageR0SE Resident]

On the subject of cat flipping...

I have been on both sides of this issue personally.
Not too long ago a person who "claimed" to be a newbie to KittyCatS, very personable, told me how much she wanted a megapuss, how she never had one before, would treasure it forever blah blah but she didnt have a lot of lindens. So I priced one of my mega's very low for her (it had some gen so i didnt lose THAT much & it was a nice cat) so she would have her very FIRST megapuss! And she was delighted and I felt good. Nice ending, right? Welllll... a few days later I notice quite by accident that she put the "treasured" mega kitten up for sale for a much higher price!!!?? I don't even think she unpacked it! So I got upset. I felt like she misled me to price the kitten lower and I called her on it. She was like 'Oh, I have too many cats to feed so I have to sell this one." And she offered to let me buy it back. I said. No. You bought the cat. It's yours to do with as you please at this point. But you will not EVER get a lowered price on a KittyCat from me! And Good luck to you! I was really hurt and felt used. To buy cats giving the wrong impression to get them priced lower just to flip them for a few measly extra lindens is pretty low in my book. Even though she is still on my "Friends List" I would never trust her again. And this kind of "flipping" should be discouraged. I won't out the person by name but she knows who she is and what she did. Also we dont "flip" cats for auctions. It's a very big no-no, but people try it every day! Auctions are about breeding and breeders shop there. It is understood one is selling a cat that was bred by the seller. And hopefully a cat that is unique and not a "clone". Geesh add something to the cat, cookie cutter cats lower the value of any KittyCat. And with all the new traits that are constantly coming out it is not hard to find a way to put your own stamp on any cat.

That said. I do buy cats on spec once in a great while. Collectibles or megas or even from close-out/going out of business sales if I find them super low priced. I resell them on marketplace and as far as I know there is no rule, spoken or unspoken, against doing this. I do not mislead any seller to get them to lower the price on their cat. And I have warned breeders when they had a trait way way undervalued just out of a sense of doing what's right. However I do buy a cat or 2 for myself first! lol I'm no saint!

Sometimes when I need lindens for my hungry horde I price my cats low. And if someone buys them and resells them for more, good for them! I don't like to see clones mass produced and watch the price drop to almost nothing on special cats I've custom bred. But what can you do? I guess we can try and be nice to each other, share more, help more, take less, get bent out of shape less too. None of us is perfect and all of us are learning. Most of all we should have a good time cuz not many are in this for the lindens alone.


~SavageR0SE
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[Minx Diabolito]

Hiya Rose ^.^ It's very wrongful for what happened to you and is very wrong for anybody to gain cats by deceiving to get the price lowered. Absolutely this kind of practice should not be okay with cats nor anything.

[MsMagick Resident]

(01-19-2016 12:36 AM)Winter Phoenix Wrote:  Its more like... somebody is selling a dozen widgets on Ebay for 5 bucks.
I pay 5 bucks for the 12 and sell em individually...

...for a buck apiece on Ebay, and make seven dollars profit.

(I broke this part out because it's getting long... and it something others have brushed on.)

And, yes, I've done exactly that in RL... bought items wholesale, or from distributors, in lots and then sold them retail.

I also bought custom items wholesale from some great seamstresses and craftspeople to sell at events and online. They knew I was taking orders or stocking up on an assortment to sell for a festival, etc., but it gave them more sales, and everyone benefited. It also gave them advertising...I never had any issue saying who made the item, and some had labels, etc.

(This was back when I was able to go to conventions and festivals health-wise. I would pay my way by teaching and/or vending at the local ones, and by selling online. I never made enough to pay the rent, but I did get to experience a lot that I never would have done otherwise.)

Though, thinking of those artisans, some of them would rather do their craft and let someone else do the work of selling it. As others have mentioned, the same might apply to breeders, and inversely, to business people.

And, for the record, I honestly see breeding as an art. It's creative, yet technical, and can produce things of great beauty.

Personally, I'm always loved art, and took both business classes and art classes in high school and during my first year of college, but I recognized that there are much greater talents out there, and instead became a number cruncher for a while. And then got very bored with it.

Anyway...

In as far as cats, I do like breeding, but I'm just really getting the hang of doing things like intentionally pulling a recessive trait out from under dominant ones. I know that there are breeders out there with more experience than I have that can trait a cat up before I can sneeze... or at least it seems that way sometimes. :-) I appreciate their hard work, and yes, I'd often rather buy their kitties and then play with how I want to partner them, than do all the work from starters.

We all have different skills and interests, and they all play different roles in the community. None are right or wrong, and it would be a lot more boring, and there might be less of a market for some of this great art, if we all did exactly the same thing.

[Shukie Galicia]

I've seen cat-flipping happen a few times. And it sucks to see, but, i dont buy it!
Simple as, dont like what a sellers doing? Dont buy from them, or at the very least, dont buy that cat.
I saw a good deal of it happen a couple months back when someone decided to sell off their collection of 'lazy daisys' cats. they sold them on bidboards and they all ended up going for between 5K and 7K. within days of the first one being sold on bidboards, i started to see them turning up again, AT THE SAME SIMS BIDBOARDS owned by somebody else, priced up at 10K+
I was pretty disgusted by the idea somebody'd try doing that, but honestly, i was just laughing, knowing nobody would pay that when they saw some going for much less just days before.
It happens.

But really, what people do with an item they bought is up to them. You have 0 control over that cat once it is owned by someone else. Thats just how it goes.

[Oselkhandro Resident]

Absolutely...there is value in the work that a reseller puts into the sale of a kitty! It is rather like the difference between wholesale and retail. Kitties sold for "wholesale" prices may be resold at "retail" prices by an enterprising merchant, who must do the work (such as healing, feeding and ADVERTISING) to win back their investment plus a reasonable profit. Here's to Free Enterprise!

[Emilia Darkwatch]

I feel that "cat flipping" if done using manipulation or deceit is totally wrong. It is predatory and just plain bad behaviour. I imagine those who do this as really rather creepy, in all the wrong ways... rubbing their hands together in glee at deceiving or ripping someone off. Everyone gets their kicks in a different way, but this is just ridiculous. Anything dishonestly gained is beyond worthless, in my opinion, and it is shameful behaviour

Aside from this, I have my views on what I would like done to me or not, but I don't feel I can tell anyone else what to do, or to stop it or not. They are free to do as they choose. It is a strange kind of compliment that someone buys your cat and believes it is worth so much more. On the occasions it has happened to me I either let it go over my head as no big deal, or I used it as a lesson that maybe I was underpricing a kitty. So, to ensure I was not cat flipped again or so readily, I adjusted my pricing on those kitties which really mattered to me. Of course there is a fine line between what a cat flipper will find attractive and buy up, and a price that is going to leave a cat on your shelf for months or more. Honestly, in most cases... I would rather the cat flipper bought it, I get some L for food or to buy a new cat for a new project and everyone is happy. I feel happy because I sold the cat for a value I was happy with. I do not sit and think to myself "hmmm... I wonder if that person who bought 5 of my cats did it because they love them or were they too cheap and being resold now?". Even if I see my cat resold... and I have... I use it as a lesson to be ok with it or re-think my pricing. In the case, mentioned here, of a pink mega sold for 4k, it is a lesson to learn that they are worth more for future. I don't mean that as a criticism... learning is great and we all go through it and continue to. In the case of a confetti sold for a relatively cheap amount, no one forced anyone to put that price on the kitty. In both cases, putting a price that was a bit higher would have made the seller happier, and in both cases it is a feeling of displeasure that they did not have the opportunity to get more for the cat and someone else did. I honestly don't think we can blame others or brand them "dishonest" that they say "wow that is cheap" when it IS cheap... then buy it.. and resell it. People who are bothered by this practice should either sell to someone they know very well, who has the lowest probability of reselling... or just price it higher and you'll be happier with what you get and not feel ripped off or taken advantage of because the opportunity was not there for it to occur. Even if it does, you won't seethe quite as much because your cut was more and the gap between what the flipper paid you and their mark up will be considerably smaller, if you price your cat that bit higher

What I'm suggesting really is, do not, at auction or in your store or bid board, put a price on your cat you are unhappy to get let it go for because that is going to be the core of your unhappiness. And when it is sold... actually let it go... because when you sold your cat, and you get the L and you see someone reselling it, it's not honestly yours anymore and you have lost all control to say what happens to it after the point of sale. There is no point seething and thinking "hey that is MY cat"... because it is not yours anymore

This being said, I do get it that we make emotional attachments and even regard them as our projects, creations or babies. Everyone has their own take on this and some are more or less attached than others. But we just can't tell people what to do if it is a case of buying and reselling, without deceitful practices. It's part of business and although it is not something I do, I don't look down on those who do it without deceit or manipulation in order to get the cat

[Christin73 Resident]

When I go out looking for kitties to "flip", I buy from stores. People who own stores set their prices to what they want. Sometimes it is within my buying range for a kitty to resell. I don't go around desieving anyone or tricking anyone to get the kitty to sell. Yes tricking someone to get a kitty at low price is wrong and sould never be done. Those kind of "flippers" give the hounest ones a bad rap. All it takes is one bad one to spoil it for the rest of us.

[Devilness Chant]

I've been following this thread and wanted to add a few things, but have been too tired and scared I may offend anyone.

Some of the hardest things we can do in life, is accept others for the way they are, and take responsibility for our own actions. I wish I had accepted these things earlier in life. If I had, it would have saved me from getting 3 divorces, and years of misery. I however thought that I could change their evil ways and make them treat me like the goddess that I am. haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

If you price a kitty low and someone buys it and tries to sell it higher, then it was your fault to start with. Even if you had good intentions, or made a mistake. It was still your doing. If someone buys it, you can't expect them to say, ooops here take it back.

I have on occasion, when I used to troll the markets, contacted a seller to let them know a kitty is priced low in case it was a mistake. But you can't expect that from everyone. Another point is, that person, may think you wanted to sell it that low just for some kibble money. Some ppl I had contacted told me it wasn't a mistake and told me I could buy it if I really wanted it.

Another thing I would like to point out, is that not all ppl that buy a couple kitties then sell their boxes have evil intentions.

I had bought kitties and smooshed them together to get breeding pairs for later. I put the ones out for sale that were the wrong sex for what I wanted. Example, I got three boys before I got the girl mate, so the two extra boys may have ended up on a shelf for sale. It was not my intention to do evil to the original breeder. I just didn't need the two boys.

Another example. My project kitty that I have so proudly displayed in showroom. I only put a few of the not needed os out for sale. (after the prices dropped way down, cause I didn't want to undermine sales from my friend who gave me the traits) The original os from my project kitty show other breeders names. I have a lot of boxes from this project I never put out for sale because one, I didn't want to undermine sales from my friend and two I am lazy. lol But the earlier ones have other breeders names on them. So you can look at those pedigrees and say...That evil woman is trying to sell someone elses hard work! Instead of realizing that the evil woman just had a lot of boxes she didn't need to breed and wanted to either share or make a little bit of kibble money.

I do want to say that I have one line in there that was originally mine, which explains the gerbera blue. rofl Every time that eye pops out I chuckle and think, "Oooh my trademark" lol I do love the eye though. lol

There was a time when I too thought resellers or flippers were evil. But I would like to point out three things. If you see someone doing it and don't like it, don't buy from them. (you can do like I used to do) Check the pedigree names and go directly to the original breeder. (I did this so I could spend less for the same kitties hehehehe but I did use them in my breeding plans)

My second point that I would like to make, is this. Resellers make up a lot of our market. If they didn't buy those kitties in the first place, those boxes would just be sitting on your shelves collecting dust. (like they are probably doing on the flippers shelves)

And my third point is, not all ppl that sell those smooshed kitties have evil intentions. They may just be boxes from a project they didn't need. Face it, if you want different traits to breed, you probably need other ppls kitties to do it. So yes, other names are going to be in those pedigrees, even as close as having bred the parents of the kitty that is for sale.

[Shamu077 Resident]

(01-20-2016 05:34 PM)Devilness Chant Wrote:  So yes, other names are going to be in those pedigrees, even as close as having bred the parents of the kitty that is for sale.

Besides, you can never tell who the breeder is by looking at the owner. I routinely sell my live breeders as soon as I have a younger replacement for the parent, or I have accumulated enough boxes to end that breeding project.

I have cats I selll that now show I am not the owner of any of them, but I WAS in fact the owner and breeder of the entire pedigree back to the starters.

KittyCats refuses to list the Breeder name on the pedigrees - my pet peeve for years.

As far as flipping goes - it's the way commerce has been for thousands of years - buy low, sell higher. If anyone is opposed to flipping commodities, only buy your food and clothing from the original producer. You want a banana? Go to Central/South America and buy one from a banana farmer.

Shamu

[Lostime Resident]

I sometimes ask a third person to buy a cat for me due to the fact many know I hoard megas and would if I approach them ask a crazy price, many times I can get the cat cheaper for using a third person to buy the cat for me.