Anyone else confused about Abyss Creme (dom/rec)?

[MarissaCloud Resident]

*looks at the pedigree sideways* LOL



When I came back...I saw that Abyss Creme was moved on the Saga charts.

Not as dom as originally thought to be (ik, these changes are normal. Over time...more and more people breed, results become more concrete, yes yes yes ).

But this result had me cross-eyed, so I thought I would share it. (feel free to share your crazy Abyss Creme stories too! I wanna hear em)

*takes it on the chin & rolls with it* LOL It's a great fur! Peace out!

[Kayla Woodrunner]

I think there are small corrections once they are placed in the main chart. I also think they are slow to make changes.

I checked back on my notes on aby creme and it looks like it was showing more dominant before like position #37 and then they changed it to between #39-#45. I am giving numbers because it's a quick graphical way to show people the change. It looks like they thought it was slotted but then some charts brought it into question. It's better to show a range when something is called into question.

They wait for 2 charts to show the same thing to register a change so changes can be slow. I sent in a chart proving Exotic Treasure is dominant to Double Dip months ago. I have a cat with Ex Treasure showing, Double Dip hid. They still haven't made the change. It's a small change admittedly but considering how people rely on Saga's chart, it's important to be accurate. I can only assume no one else has submitted a chart and they won't make the change until they get a 2nd chart even though a cat showing one trait with another trait hid is absolute proof of the dominance between those 2 traits. This is why when I find something that changes or narrows a range of dominance, I post it in the forum so people can see the chart and I encourage others to do the same. this should be done along with sending charts to Saga's folks.

It might be nice on the bottom of the Saga chart, if they had an update section which shows the last 5 updates/changes that were made in the chart. That way people can do a quick scan for changes. But considering how much work it must be to go through the charts, it is probably a lot to ask.

[Dottie Idlemind]

Hi Marissa! I love Aby Crème.. it is a great fur! Yes, it does appear that Aby Crème is more recessive than previously thought and indeed your pedigree reflects that placement!

I am so very thankful to those who have taken on the enormous task of keeping Saga's Charts updated and accurate!

@Kayla: Have you tried resending your Exotic Treasure/DDF proof? I've had to resend proofs in the past and they've shown up in the next update(s). I imagine my notecards have gotten lost due to SL "misbehaving", lol. ?

I think it is wonderful that you post your findings here in the forum as well... I appreciate the information that you and others provide!

Oh! I just noticed that there is a listing of new proofs at the top of each dominance order chart (Saga's)! That is extremely helpful!

[Kayla Woodrunner]

Oh, Dottie, you're right. I see the new proofs added. That is probably their newest updates. I was thinking more of a line like "Twilight changed from ...." But these quick notes work great as well.

[Wendi Lavendel]

Hai Marissa! I can't recall when we last changed the Aby Cream in the charts, I think it's been 2 or 3 months since we stopped getting proofs for it (if we did get any, they didn't really tell us anything new).

When looking at the position of a trait on the chart, it's best to see where it is in relation to the rest of the traits around it - not the actual row #'s on the spreadsheet. This is because over the last month we've been making some appearance changes to the charts which results in the row numbers being shifted here and there. (and there will be more; I'm still not happy with how those Gen furs are being displayed!)

I do notice you have some pretty Sunset eyes there in that pedi - If you happen to find out anything about them, we would really appreciate knowing about it We can't tell much from your pedigree there (unless you happen to have any proof that shows what Blar and Amarissa are hiding!) All we know right now is that it's dominant to Light Wash.

Kayla, thanks for your info on the ET/DDF, we actually did get that info from you about 8 weeks ago and had outlined the cells in red (I guess it wasn't that visible to everyone, oops!) -- your proof was the most solid we could get! But we were worried about why the chart was wrong and how it got that way - I had to chase some old notecards/textures/emails/files down to find out how those 2 eyes got in that order and why.. Were they just switched accidentally or was it because one of them was in a wrong spot and far away from the right one? We were unable to find any conclusive information so a couple of nights ago we just decided to swap them for now and you'll see that we put little red asterisks beside them (so we can remember there might be an issue there if we see anything else odd in the future). Thanks so much for sending us your info, we really appreciate it, and sorry that it wasn't so clear on the charts. I'll make sure in future that we make those kinds of things a bit clearer!

Yush, sometimes it takes a while to get new stuffs up there for sure... sometimes we get something good but there's info missing (like maybe someone assumed a cat was hiding something that it might not be, or they assumed a cat was pure because it looked like it but there was no proof of that, or they assumed a cat was too old to hide some new trait) so we have to go back and forth in email/IM over a period of time... I've seen some other proofs in the past on the internet that use that kind of inconclusive information and it's quite frustrating. We are definitely a bit more meticulous, even thought it means things take a bit longer.... I just finished one little change with Foxie Argyle that was a conversation over 6 weeks I think! eek!

And don't worry about asking for or suggesting better ways to do things, that's how the charts get better! In fact, you must be psychic because for the last week I've been working on a new in-world board that does almost exactly what you suggested (it shows the details of the last week's changes). It should be out in a few days so I'll make sure I pass you one.

We're going to try some other new things to see if the whole process can be more efficient: we're going to start a monthly series with proof examples and discuss why they're "solid" or why they might be inconclusive, and hopefully that way we can get all the stuff we need on the first try! You might also have noticed that we've been reorganizing the information in the charts (that box on the top-left was one thing we tried and we're going to be improving more on that, too), and we've better integrated the information about retired/limited edition traits, too Those were all based on suggestions and comments from community members, so do keep those coming. (and for those reading this that are wondering why their feedback hasn't been implemented, yet - it will be very soon, I promise!! I had to prioritize LOL)

Thanks again for being diligent community members and checking out your pedigree information - it really does help everyone when you're able to provide such good information and we appreciate it when you take the time to take screen shots and send them to us and then go back and dig out the proof that kitty's great great grandmother's second cousin's litter box cleaner was hiding Dreamy Tail

Check out the new SagaKitty blog! All the new stuff we've been doing late is there, plus a couple of cool new exciting things to come!
http://sagakitty.blogspot.ca

[Kayla Woodrunner]

I did look at the Saga blogs you guys set up. It looks awesome. You guys have been doing a lot of work.


I hope you don't mind Wendi, I sent proofs on recessiveness of Crystal Berry and Sereneity to your Forum mailbox. I hardly ever do email and only check it once evry few months. I just don't use email much.

[MarissaCloud Resident]

TYSM Wendy!! You guys ROCK! Thanks for working so hard to keep us updated.