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Theodore Nacht · 08-09-2014, 08:49 PM

Do you have a system/schedule by which you maintain the pricing database? Do they take into account all the kitty markets? (Keeping in mind that what something is set out for in a shop is not necessarily the price it sells at.) Auction prices? Bid boards? This sounds like it could be invaluable, but I'm curious as to how up to date and complete the info provided is.

Script Hyun · 08-11-2014, 11:37 AM

(08-09-2014 08:49 PM)Theodore Nacht Wrote: Do you have a system/schedule by which you maintain the pricing database? Do they take into account all the kitty markets? (Keeping in mind that what something is set out for in a shop is not necessarily the price it sells at.) Auction prices? Bid boards? This sounds like it could be invaluable, but I'm curious as to how up to date and complete the info provided is.

Hello Theodore,

Thank you for your question, first of all the traits are updated weekly by myself, a team of 20 ppl send in their information on the value of each trait, from this value I make a global which is the value of that trait.
Hereby I visit almost every auction to see at which value each kitten is going away, till now the prices the calculator creates are always very near to the end result which the calculator result into.

I know that some ppl are overpricing or underpricing their kitten based on the traits, some of the breeders (mostly beginning breeders) count the traits and just add 50 or 100 per trait, which imo isn't the right value of a kitten.

Last I saw an Aby Dark Choco going for 350 L (7Traits)
So the owner/breeder of that cat didn't knew the latest fur is the Aby dark and the value is way over what the cat was priced.

In the calculator each trait is counted separately, so if the fur is for example genesis, it will be reducted from a 9T kitten (9*50 = 450 - 50 genesis fur = 400)

But if the trait is lets say (This is just an example, exact prices changes too often) Aby it will add 5k to the fur only; so based on the calculation: (8*50 for normal traits + [in this example] 5k for the newest trait = 5400)

Remember that the calculator is solely a baseline on prices, it helps out beginning breeders to not underprice or overprice their kittens.

Kayleigh McMillan · (This post was last modified: 08-11-2014 02:38 PM by Kayleigh McMillan.)

Hi Script

I have a question too.
There are traits which are almost not findable on the market anymore, but are not per se new, perhaps due to the fact there were not much breeders who bred the trait when it was released and becomes in demand after the matter.
Does your calculator also take rare traits in consideration and not only new traits?

For a long time for example we rarely saw a Red Tabby anymore while the market was saturated with them for long.
They were not much in favor and as such not bred as often while today some people love to breed the Red Tabby which is retired long ago from the currently available starters.

I've noticed for example some breeders forgot about the Ody Slush eye or never heard from it or see it on the markets this trait was optionally possible to breed from the Love Bees and Bugs exclusively.
Does this increase in your system the price of, in this example, of the Ody Slush eyes?

I also remember the return of the retired Moo kitty (Chateau Black & White No. 1) for long it was under valued and we frequently saw them lonely and forgotten on the local love shack after which they magically disappeared and made a huge come back.
The return of the Moo Kitty was a 9T with Apple eyes and I have seen them go for 5k and up on auctions.
This was completely unthinkable in the beginning.

In general it seems difficult to me to price a kitty based on it's visable traits especially because some trait combinations in one kitty may be more valuable than each trait on it's own and the hidden traits may increase the kitty's value too.
And the "pretty" value may add up to a kitty as well.

I remember I believe it was my friend Anna bred back in the days a 9T Black Russian with perfect Gerbera Orange Eyes and a Porcelain shade they went for much money because many found the kitty so pretty.
That while each trait on it's own may not have been so valuable to people as the complete cat was.

I for example love to obtain desired furs and other traits pure and if a breeder bred the kitty with care why the desired trait is pure it is worth more to me than when an ultra recessive is hidden which is not the desired trait and makes it harder to breed the desired trait in our projects because the hidden may pass why the cat becomes tidious to work with.
So while cats may look the same they can make a world of difference to work with.
I am curious as to how your system values those different elements?

Script Hyun · (This post was last modified: 06-13-2015 06:19 PM by Script Hyun.)

(08-11-2014 01:31 PM)Kayleigh McMillan Wrote: Hi Script

I have a question too.
There are traits which are almost not findable on the market anymore, but are not per se new, perhaps due to the fact there were not much breeders who bred the trait when it was released and becomes in demand after the matter.
Does your calculator also take rare traits in consideration and not only new traits?

For a long time for example we rarely saw a Red Tabby anymore while the market was saturated with them for long.
They were not much in favor and as such not bred as often while today some people love to breed the Red Tabby which is retired long ago from the currently available starters.

I've noticed for example some breeders forgot about the Ody Slush eye or never heard from it or see it on the markets this trait was optionally possible to breed from the Love Bees and Bugs exclusively.
Does this increase in your system the price of, in this example, of the Ody Slush eyes?

I also remember the return of the retired Moo kitty (Chateau Black & White No. 1) for long it was under valued and we frequently saw them lonely and forgotten on the local love shack after which they magically disappeared and made a huge come back.
The return of the Moo Kitty was a 9T with Apple eyes and I have seen them go for 5k and up on auctions.
This was completely unthinkable in the beginning.

In general it seems difficult to me to price a kitty based on it's visable traits especially because some trait combinations in one kitty may be more valuable than each trait on it's own and the hidden traits may increase the kitty's value too.
And the "pretty" value may add up to a kitty as well.

I remember I believe it was my friend Anna bred back in the days a 9T Black Russian with perfect Gerbera Orange Eyes and a Porcelain shade they went for much money because many found the kitty so pretty.
That while each trait on it's own may not have been so valuable to people as the complete cat was.

I for example love to obtain desired furs and other traits pure and if a breeder bred the kitty with care why the desired trait is pure it is worth more to me than when an ultra recessive is hidden which is not the desired trait and makes it harder to breed the desired trait in our projects because the hidden may pass why the cat becomes tidious to work with.
So while cats may look the same they can make a world of difference to work with.
I am curious as to how your system values those different elements?

Hello Kayleigh,

In the calculator I have included each trait from the beginning KittyCatS started, every trait mentioned on this website is included in the complete overview. (even the missing ones like: e.g. Rounded Boo Boo)
Rare traits have been added as well as retired traits since every trait on it's own has it's own value.

As you mentioned in here, the Odyssey Slush eye is indeed almost unseen on the market, the price for the Odyssey Slush eye is also greater in value than the other traits who could be genesis or starters related.

For the moment the Calculator only counts the traits and adds the value of each trait seperately to the value of the kitten.
This is morely as an intention for beginners/breeders to get an idea what a kitten could be worth.
I'm currently working on the 2nd version of the KC's Calculator which will have 2 extra fields so the parents can also be added and the chance of hidden traits can also be taken care in the pricing.

Also will the second version take in mind of kittens who are already aged and born so the value would decrease if the kitten is older.
For example, if a kitten is 30 days, it can only give it first box at 14 days (if fed with milk / cuddled / petted) or after 18 days (if not given any of mentioned before)
So the value of the kitten would be 1/4th of the actual calculated price since the aging of a kitten goes to 120 days.

I personally can't give a solid baseline on prices as like you said prices also vary by the taste of the buyer itself, that's also why I need to update the prices database weekly, if I see prices going up for a special kitten with multiple traits it will also be added to the calculator prices database so the value of the results in the calculator would be almost the same as on the markets / auction places.

Example at the moment of a combined calculated trait;
"whiskers: black (dreamy)" is something really wanted at the moment and the value goes above for example "white (dreamy)"
Basically it would be in calculating terms like: [These are examples, prices do not match the database]
Shape: Dreamy => +500
Color: Black => +75
<=> while: Black (Dreamy) => +1500

So I try to keep in mind the different combinations which could raise the value of the kitten.

But as you say, in the end it's always the seller who decides what the final price should be, I can only give a baseline to pricing kittens so they won't be under priced or overpriced.
We've all seen the markets go crazy, now I see diamonds getting sold for 1500L.
As we all know such a things "destroys" markets since the fancies will lose their value if everyone is having one that easy.

As you mentioned in your last paragraph, I also personally like the pure breeds also since you actually know what you have in hands and what will come forth out of the kitten.
We've all seen mixed up kittens, but again, that's a part of the breeders idea's and intentions of the breeding.
In the beginning we all mixed up our kittens and liked to see what would came forth of it, the pedigree checking is also something that in my opinion can't be controlled technically, it enquirers a personal touch.

The only thing I can do is ask around to people what they should think the specific trait is worth.
For the moment I have over 20 volunteers (beta-testers/auctioneers/users) who give me their prices trait by trait according to a spreadsheet, from this spreadsheet I'm taking out the average price which results in the final pricing of that trait.
There's a lot of work put into the gathering of all the prices/traits and I'm so thankful to the ones supporting me in this project.

I hope to have given you enough information based on your questions, if you'd have more feel free to reply to this thread or IM me inworld.

Kind Regards,
Script Hyun

Kayleigh McMillan · 08-24-2014, 02:26 PM

(08-13-2014 09:39 AM)Script Hyun Wrote: Hello Kayleigh,

In the calculator I have included each trait from the beginning KittyCatS started, every trait mentioned on this website is included in the complete overview. (even the missing ones like: e.g. Rounded Boo Boo)
Rare traits have been added as well as retired traits since every trait on it's own has it's own value.

As you mentioned in here, the Odyssey Slush eye is indeed almost unseen on the market, the price for the Odyssey Slush eye is also greater in value than the other traits who could be genesis or starters related.

For the moment the Calculator only counts the traits and adds the value of each trait seperately to the value of the kitten.
This is morely as an intention for beginners/breeders to get an idea what a kitten could be worth.
I'm currently working on the 2nd version of the KC's Calculator which will have 2 extra fields so the parents can also be added and the chance of hidden traits can also be taken care in the pricing.

Also will the second version take in mind of kittens who are already aged and born so the value would decrease if the kitten is older.
For example, if a kitten is 30 days, it can only give it first box at 14 days (if fed with milk / cuddled / petted) or after 18 days (if not given any of mentioned before)
So the value of the kitten would be 1/4th of the actual calculated price since the aging of a kitten goes to 120 days.

I personally can't give a solid baseline on prices as like you said prices also vary by the taste of the buyer itself, that's also why I need to update the prices database weekly, if I see prices going up for a special kitten with multiple traits it will also be added to the calculator prices database so the value of the results in the calculator would be almost the same as on the markets / auction places.

Example at the moment of a combined calculated trait;
"whiskers: black (dreamy)" is something really wanted at the moment and the value goes above for example "white (dreamy)"
Basically it would be in calculating terms like: [These are examples, prices do not match the database]
Shape: Dreamy => +500
Color: Black => +75
<=> while: Black (Dreamy) => +1500

So I try to keep in mind the different combinations which could raise the value of the kitten.

But as you say, in the end it's always the seller who decides what the final price should be, I can only give a baseline to pricing kittens so they won't be under priced or overpriced.
We've all seen the markets go crazy, now I see diamonds getting sold for 1500L.
As we all know such a things "destroys" markets since the fancies will lose their value if everyone is having one that easy.

As you mentioned in your last paragraph, I also personally like the pure breeds also since you actually know what you have in hands and what will come forth out of the kitten.
We've all seen mixed up kittens, but again, that's a part of the breeders idea's and intentions of the breeding.
In the beginning we all mixed up our kittens and liked to see what would came forth of it, the pedigree checking is also something that in my opinion can't be controlled technically, it enquirers a personal touch.

The only thing I can do is ask around to people what they should think the specific trait is worth.
For the moment I have over 20 volunteers (beta-testers/auctioneers/users) who give me their prices trait by trait according to a spreadsheet, from this spreadsheet I'm taking out the average price which results in the final pricing of that trait.
There's a lot of work put into the gathering of all the prices/traits and I'm so thankful to the ones supporting me in this project.

I hope to have given you enough information based on your questions, if you'd have more feel free to reply to this thread or IM me inworld.

Kind Regards,
Script Hyun

Thank you Script for this comprehensive explantion Smile

LavitaLoca Vita · (This post was last modified: 08-31-2014 02:43 PM by LavitaLoca Vita.)

This looks like it could be useful. I wanted to clarify your reply to Kayleigh with 2 questions:
1. It incorporates rarity of traits by averaging breeders' prices for the traits?
2. the next version will take hidden traits taken into account, in calculating prices, but this is not available yet?

thanks in advance for your reply.

-Lavita

Script Hyun · 08-31-2014, 06:24 PM

(08-31-2014 02:37 PM)LavitaLoca Vita Wrote: This looks like it could be useful. I wanted to clarify your reply to Kayleigh with 2 questions:
1. It incorporates rarity of traits by averaging breeders' prices for the traits?
2. the next version will take hidden traits taken into account, in calculating prices, but this is not available yet?

thanks in advance for your reply.

-Lavita

Hello Lavita,

1.) Not only the breeders, also by the auctions and the prices the kittens get sold at the moment.
This also includes forum posts, requests, suggestions..
Every opinion is taken in consideration by the prizing team and the average of that approved amount is put into the calculator

2.) This is not available yet but will be automatically updated in the new version; version 2 is being tested by random people at this moment. (I send out beta-versions in the group if new stuff is added)
Version 3 will have all the collectibles in it.

Kind regards,
Script Hyun

LavitaLoca Vita · 09-01-2014, 08:47 AM

(08-31-2014 06:24 PM)Script Hyun Wrote:
(08-31-2014 02:37 PM)LavitaLoca Vita Wrote: This looks like it could be useful. I wanted to clarify your reply to Kayleigh with 2 questions:
1. It incorporates rarity of traits by averaging breeders' prices for the traits?
2. the next version will take hidden traits taken into account, in calculating prices, but this is not available yet?

thanks in advance for your reply.

-Lavita

Hello Lavita,

1.) Not only the breeders, also by the auctions and the prices the kittens get sold at the moment.
This also includes forum posts, requests, suggestions..
Every opinion is taken in consideration by the prizing team and the average of that approved amount is put into the calculator

2.) This is not available yet but will be automatically updated in the new version; version 2 is being tested by random people at this moment. (I send out beta-versions in the group if new stuff is added)
Version 3 will have all the collectibles in it.

Kind regards,
Script Hyun