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does every starter have a hidden fur?
06-28-2014, 07:50 AM (This post was last modified: 06-28-2014 08:11 AM by Morgan Trevellion.)
Post: #1
does every starter have a hidden fur?
I have a starter that I cant bring out the hidden fur no matter what I try. Does every starter have a hidden fur or is this all I am going to get from this starter?
Atraeh is gone but was a 9T soft black foxie he is now paired with ? 9T Alaska hides swanky tail Ocicat - Ebony Silver.

http://kittycats.biz/pedigree/pedigreevi...id=8148084

any advice would be appreciated thanks
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06-28-2014, 09:01 AM
Post: #2
RE: does every starter have a hidden fur?
All starters have a hidden fur Morgan, you just have a very stubborn kitty but this happens to all of us sometimes/often.
I believe that there are actually couple of traits that can be missing for some starts, small pupil and shade i think but i'm not sure.

When you want to show us a kitty's pedigree you need to take a screenshot and upload it here through a image hosting site like Flickr or one of the many others available on the web.
I like using TinyPic, it's really simple and easy for forum posting : http://fr.tinypic.com
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06-28-2014, 12:24 PM (This post was last modified: 06-28-2014 12:26 PM by Morgan Trevellion.)
Post: #3
RE: does every starter have a hidden fur?
hi I am not sure how to put a picture in a forum any advice I couldn't find an English version of tinypic
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06-28-2014, 02:20 PM
Post: #4
RE: does every starter have a hidden fur?
(06-28-2014 07:50 AM)Morgan Trevellion Wrote:  I have a starter that I cant bring out the hidden fur no matter what I try. Does every starter have a hidden fur or is this all I am going to get from this starter?
Atraeh is gone but was a 9T soft black foxie he is now paired with ? 9T Alaska hides swanky tail Ocicat - Ebony Silver.

http://kittycats.biz/pedigree/pedigreevi...id=8148084

any advice would be appreciated thanks

Are you saying all of the offspring from your starter has only given you Genesis furs?

Because, if you have any offspring w/ a non genesis fur, then that is either the hidden fur of the starter, or the starter hidden fur is still hiding in the offspring.
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06-28-2014, 02:49 PM (This post was last modified: 06-28-2014 02:50 PM by Morgan Trevellion.)
Post: #5
RE: does every starter have a hidden fur?
So far all of the offspring of the starter have been gen furs from the starter male, different females for each one
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06-30-2014, 11:00 PM
Post: #6
RE: does every starter have a hidden fur?
Starers are guaranteed to hide secondary traits (non genesis) for Fur, Eye Color, Ears, Tail, Whisker Color and Whisker Shape

They may or may not hide a secondary trait for eye shape, pupil, and shade.

The only exception is when a collection specifically states that it will hide something. Example being the Lazie Dazies were guaranteed to hide porcelain shade.

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 Thanks given by: Eurydice Barzane
07-01-2014, 06:52 AM
Post: #7
RE: does every starter have a hidden fur?
thank you.
Does anyone have any suggestions as to which fur i pair this cat with next to try to find the hidden fur?
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07-01-2014, 08:47 AM (This post was last modified: 07-01-2014 09:22 AM by Tad Carlucci.)
Post: #8
RE: does every starter have a hidden fur?
Most people will suggest using the mate with most recessive fur you have available. I often recommend starting with a mid-level fur, though.

The idea is this: say we have 40 furs. Your starter will have one of them. All things being equal (which we do NOT know), it's about 50/50 that the starter will hide one of the 20 more dominant furs, or one of the 20 more recessive. So, if we start with something in the middle, and it's one of the more dominant furs, we're not 'wasting' a breeding cycle for our most-recessive furs. A retired mid-level fur is best for this. Since it's retired, it is impossible for the starter (unless it's an old one you found in inventory) to hide the retired fur.

So, you have three possible outcome:

1) You get the starter's shown fur. This box will hide either the shown or hidden from the other mate. It cannot advance you to your goal, so, while the box may be good for other things, I classify it a failure to be discarded (sent to the Menagerie). Try again. The odds of this result are 1-in-2.

2) You get the mate's shown fur. This box is guaranteed to hide the starter's hidden fur. If it can mate with the starter, open it and, next week, when it starts gaining love, mate it with the starter parent. If you get the wrong gender, try again. The odds of this result are either 0 (impossible), 1-in-2, or 1-in-4.

3) You get a fur which is neither parent's shown fur. This might be success. Check Saga's charts. If the box shows a fur which is dominant to the mate, it is the starter's hidden fur trait and you have succeeded. If it is not, it is functionally identical to result (2) above. The odds of this result are either 0 (impossible), 1-in-2, or 1-in-4. If the box shows a fur which is recessive to the mate, the starter hides something even more recessive. The current pair can NEVER show the starter's hidden; switch to the offspring box, replacing your original mate-parent, as with case 2.

Assuming you've discarded all case (1) results, and you did not get a case (3) success, once you get a box which is the gender needed to breed back to the starter, switch to it. You now have a 1-in-4 chance of obtaining an offspring showing.

The odds for cases 2 and 3 depend upon the mate you chose. If you choose a more dominant mate, you'll get case 2 more often. If your chosen mate also hides something which is also dominant to your starter's hidden, it makes a case 3 immediate success impossible.

This is why people often recommend using your most-recessive mate. It makes case 3 more likely. Usually (unless your starter hides a new most-recessive-of-all, which is unlikely) it make case 2 impossible, and a case 3 immediate-success can occur.

The reason I recommend starting at the mid-level is usually you have something more important your deeply-recessive traits can be doing (pulling out hiddens from non-starters, crossing traits together, etc.) In general, across a large number of breeders and outcomes, it will work just as well to use a mid-level trait as a deeply recessive one. In fact, if you do happen to be poised to discover a new most-recessive-of-all, which mate you chose is completely irrelevant, all work equally well (er, equally badly Smile ).
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 Thanks given by: Eurydice Barzane
07-01-2014, 10:13 AM
Post: #9
RE: does every starter have a hidden fur?
thank you Tad, i will try a mid range next
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07-01-2014, 01:16 PM (This post was last modified: 07-01-2014 01:34 PM by fabioazevedo Oh.)
Post: #10
RE: does every starter have a hidden fur?
(06-28-2014 07:50 AM)Morgan Trevellion Wrote:  I have a starter that I cant bring out the hidden fur no matter what I try. Does every starter have a hidden fur or is this all I am going to get from this starter?
Atraeh is gone but was a 9T soft black foxie he is now paired with ? 9T Alaska hides swanky tail Ocicat - Ebony Silver.

http://kittycats.biz/pedigree/pedigreevi...id=8148084

any advice would be appreciated thanks




Hey Morgan,

See my example below. You must have a case equal to this kitten. Are 10 rounds with fur Genesis.

As you already know, my technique to discover hidden traits, is, alwaysuse fur recessive. Foxie Salt is great for this job. Avoids the need to test more than once, when there happens a "fur more recessive '.

I want to show you this happens to be que Random system. Between 54 kittens started open, only 1, this insisting not to show fur. But the fur is there. Yes it is a test of patience.

The truth is, it makes no difference if you put fur domiante or recessive. This has no effect at all, the kitten started. This combination does not exist. If I wear fur X, it never appears. If I wear fur Y, then the luck changes. The system will send the fur randomly hidden. So, you must have a recessive fur kitten to catch the kitten started to come. Never use fur genesis to test kittens started. Except, if for some combination.

My biggest concern is you do not give up before playing the kitten out.

I have not given up this kitten. I'll come back here to show you the hidden fur.




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