The future of KittyCats (or lack of?)

[Rocky Balzibo]

So this all started for me a few months ago, got TPed to a cat auction and bought a few cats and didnt know why or what to do with them. It quickly dawned on me that I needed land and food for them. No worries I got all that and started my career as a virtual cat breeder.

Back then, which isnt really far back, cats would sell, atleast it looked like that for my untrainted eyed. I loved going to the auctions, people bidding left and right for cats that were even mediocre. But I get it, breeders hadnt gotten too far when it came to creating a perfect cat, I remember buying a 6 traited cat back then for 6500 and at prices like that. It all seemed nice and fair and it was a happy bunch of cat people I got to know.

As time went by the 7 traiters got born, whisker traits were introduced, among other things. Prices started to drop and what seemed to be a big influx of really nicely traited cats, in most categories. Selling the same or similar 6 traited cat today that i bought for 6500 is 500-1000 in an auction/bid board setting.

So today, you make your 9T cats and sell them for 5-10k, or you make other highly traited cats with special furs, eyes and what not and can get a few k for them.

And we had the new starters, new furs, new eyes, new whiskers etc. Okey these cats are desirable by some but its not like you make a ton of money in having them unless you really create some special trait combos on them.


Anyways, where Im going with this? What will KittyCats be like in 2 or 3 months from now? An abundance of plain 9 traiters? Desirable furs and eyes and even combinations of them will have 7+ traits. Then what?

I have 100 cats now, give or take a few, almost all of them are good or excellent cats, if I may say so myself, but is there any point in having them? I guess I pay around 35 000L a month, feeding them, tier, shop rent and so forth (this is not even counting the drugs, but they are optional so thats a non issue.). Of course having cats at all is optional too, but I guess that's what I'm going with this tread.

This is my first breedable, apart from bunnies i had with my partner a long time ago. But what happend to the bunnies, and then horses? Market collapsed completly as far as i know and I honestly dont feel that KittyCats are far away from that same faith, without some kind of change/improvement to the product.

I would like to hear from both KittyCats team and from the community where you think the cats will be at in 2-3-4 months, because the way I see it, it's not going to be pretty.

These are just my observations regarding this subject, I would love to hear yours, because i need to rebuild some faith in me that its worth having the cats.

[Kendrah Vantelli]

It is a good point Rocky, and I don't have an answer. I have brought this up to alot of market owners just the other day and they assure me it's because it's the end of the month/kids going back to school. I love breeding the kittycats of course and I hope they are around for a very long time <3

[Nynaveve Wirefly]

I do see a fluctuation in things week to week, with paychecks and things. For example, the beginning of the month tends to go better at auctions because folks just got paid, etc. The end of the month is rough because people are running low on cash and are waiting for that check to come in, so sales slow down drastically.

I have, however, seen a slowing of the market overall. For example, just a month or two ago, I saw the "new" coats (pink and white, silver and white, black and white 3, etc) going for 4-5K at pop at least, and just last night I bought a silver and white for 300L. I felt guilty buying that cat for that little. On the flip side, I don't see the "newest" furs selling for what they should, either. Meaning blue tabbies, abyssinians, etc. They just sit up there looking pretty on their auction pedestals getting no bids.

I don't know what to make of it. Really, that kind of downward trend has little to do with week-to-week paychecks. Its an overall market trend. Yes, it could be the change in seasons, back to school expenses, etc. I'm not certain. I don't think any of us can be sure, since KC's hasn't even been around for a year, and I haven't even been in them for 6 months yet.

I have seen that trend with other things in SL (roleplay related), folks disappear or go MIA for long periods during this time of year, but by October/November things come back to what they should be. Usually I just attribute it to the Fall start of school for everyone, but I am not sure what to make of it in a breedables market.

I've not been involved in any other breedables aside from meeroos and I refuse to compare the two because they are so utterly different. :-\ What is the typical lifespan of a breedable in SL? Obviously nothing lasts forever, but what should we expect?

[Theodore Nacht]

When we get something new, we don't immediately know whether it's going to actually be particularly recessive. Sellers may put it for sale at an extraordinarily high price, and they may even get that huge amount. But then in a few weeks buyers will see what the true level of recessiveness is. If something is only about as recessive as a cocoa and white chateau, then no one will continue to pay high prices for it because they know that in just a few weeks, it'll be available cheap. It's just not that challenging to breed out. To me, frankly, expecting 20k+ for just a new fur that's pretty but not a game-changer and will prove to be passable against low-end furs most people own ten of is setting yourself up for disappointment.

Managing expectations helps a lot to keep people happy, and it avoids the market crash ideology. The market hasn't crashed because something is no longer selling for an insane amount. The market has settled. The true market value has been found. Market value is not rarity, it's not newness, it's what someone will pay for it.

What I foresee: kittycats will develop new challenges. They will keep their ear to the ground about what gets customers excited. The new furs will be interesting in a way that captures imagination. I've noticed very few people are into the silver and white or black and white 3 chateaus like they were into ocicats. I think when they solve how to have Manx tails, long-hair or hairless cats, and Persian smushed faces, we'll see a real revitalization. And hopefully those'll be tricky to breed so they'll hold value for a long while. New traits that are more meaningful to the average person than a cute whisker will go a long way towards getting new breeders interested and keeping long-time breeders on their toes.

What I hope: menagerie will start to offer more rewards. Initially we were told kitty bucks would get us rare things available no other way. Instead they moved to gems. I really hope kitty bucks will still be able to be used for special rewards. That would take a HUGE number of unwanted cats off the market without the breeders feeling gypped. It would create a baseline value for every low-traited cat that makes it worth it to menagerie even for those who are still squeamish about it. (I know, I know, it makes me sad too, but they're not dying; they're retiring.)

[Kendrah Vantelli]

The Menagerie Rewards towards Rare Kitties is exciting!! Can't wait for that to be put into play

[Theodore Nacht]

(08-30-2011 05:26 AM)Bo Iwish Wrote:  Well my opinion in this is it would be nice if good traited cats remain valuable as the breeder has invested time, money land in it to breed it to the max.

I'm not sure what--if anything--other breedables have done to arrest the natural decline in prices as supply outstrips demand. If there are principles that have proven effective, steps that could be taken, I'd be very eager to hear them. Suggestions?

As it is... highly traited cats become more readily available at an unstoppable rate. Like most animal populations existing without natural predators, their numbers grow exponentially in sync with breeding cycles. People who are not able to afford their prims/kibble will sell at any price they can to recoup some of their losses, which devalues the cats because those persons were not treating it as a business (at least, not in the traditional sense of having budgeted for such eventualities). If virtually the same product is available at the same quality (at least, to most consumers' eyes) for much less elsewhere and in sufficient quantity, there's very little one can do to force anyone to see them as valuable anymore.

Many of us are part of that cycle. If you've ever bought a highly traited or rare cat for next to nothing, then you have to accept that expecting its offspring to sell higher is not a good bet. Once enough cats of that type are seen selling at that rate, that becomes the amount which people are willing to pay for it. If you try to sell it higher, many will think you are trying to rip them off, especially if they saw you buy the parent(s) for less.

If more recessive traits were added, and I mean -very- recessive, with extreme trickiness to breeding out...that would be helpful, I think, as only the most skilled and patient breeders would be able to work with those genes. Then those who are less patient would have to buy from those who have one to spare for whatever price that person was willing to part with it. That would ensure steady value with a very slow decline due to supply v. demand issues.

As to the issue of what will become of classic furs and traits, I still routinely see extremely desirable aesthetics selling high. If you develop a very strong aesthetic that appeals broadly, you WILL sell that cat for a good price because few people are able to target sets of traits for visual appeal. Most people sort of buy two cats they like to look at and mash them together hoping for the best. Targeted breeding which selects very unusual trait combinations will net you the best profits because it takes more skill. If what you're doing is something any breeder can do, then any breeder can and will do it, and won't need to pay you for your cat when they feel confident they can breed their own.

I absolutely have faith in the future of kittycats, but it's going to require those who want to stay on top of the game to take their breeding to the next level with a strong, specific goal not of making money but of making dream cats not easily bred or easily found elsewhere. And hopefully KC staff will take my earlier post's suggestions about Menagerie and new traits under consideration.

[Morsmordre Furman]

Ever breedable has these fluctuations. Its natural. This is part of supply and demand, it is also part of why we got new traits and breeds. This is the KittyCats team's answer to what is going on. The key to remember is that a KittyCat is as valuable as YOU make it. You the buyer. You the seller. Its as valued as you decide it is. It always has been. A buyer may agree or disagree on the value of your cat, and if they agree and can they WILL buy it.

When there are fewer cats with X trait, the price is higher because there is more demand than supply. WHen the supply gets full then the demand may go down, or there may just be more supply than demand. This will always effect prices. This effects you RL in the grocery store and when selling that flame point turquoise eyed scottish fold cat here on SL.