trait passing question

[GhostCollective Resident]

I see that, but I didn't think whether a cat is a starter or not determined if it was hiding any traits. My understanding has always been that every cat has hiddens, starter or not and so your statement of "He's not a starter" made it sound as if starter cats do not hide anything. that is all I was saying.

[Kayleigh McMillan]

(07-30-2013 12:04 PM)Tatiana Cheng Wrote:  um... how can Tad say that the dad "Shadow" is not a starter cat? Last I knew Smokey 3 was one of the starter cats. I am confused ????

It is a Genesis fur but not a starter cat as we buy them in the store.
It is an OS of a starter cat that is also, I think, how the confusion came up.
Starter kitties we buy at the store carry a Genesis fur (also refered to as Starter Fur) as a visable trait and never hide an other Genesis fur but one of the non Genesis furs instead.
When we pair 2 genesis furs with eachother though it is totally possible the OS shows a Genesis fur and hides a Genesis fur of the other parent.
This is unless the OS already shows a non Genesis fur and that is because the more dominant Genesis furs can't hide behind the more recessive non Genesis fur.
In general and this goes for all traits it is not possible for a more dominant trait to hide behind a more recessive shown trait.
There is a dominance order of the Genesis furs as well so if a Genesis fur is more dominant than the other and is the shown fur it is possible a less dominant Genesis fur is the hidden fur of that kitty, such as in this case.

EDIT it seems we responded at the same time.
I thought you didn't understand but you do

[GhostCollective Resident]

hehe, thank you Kay. Yes i do understand, was just pointing out choice of words made it sound a little confusing, especially to those not used to breeding or who go into a slack jaw daze while gazing at the Dom charts. LOL

[Tad Carlucci]

The dominance charts are not that hard, are they?

The fur chart has some 'working notes' on it, yes. But it's really just a straight top-down list. The higher up the page, the more dominant.

If you don't see the fur in that left-hand column, we don't know exactly where it falls. For most of those furs, the columns on the right are our present knowledge, as a range .. "We know it should be somewhere between here .. and here." For those, I'd suggest you just look at the top of the range for them and you'll be 'safe'.

For the Genesis furs, the working notes up at the top use > to mean "Is dominant to". So, "Diamond III > Flame III" means we know Diamond III is dominant to Flame III, but we don't know if there are other Genesis III furs between them.

The OP, if submitted to Liriel Garnet as a capture of the Pedigree View page for the box and showing both parents, will mean a new working note would be added showing "Smokey III > Flame III". So the working notes would then read:

Diamond III > Smokey III > Flame III
Diamond III > Smokey III > Domino III

This means we know Diamond III is dominant to Smokey III; and we know Smokey III is dominant to both Flame III and Domino III; but we don't know whether Flame III is dominant or recessive to Domino III; and we have no idea at all about Coco III's relationship to the other Genesis III furs.

[Kayleigh McMillan]

It is easy to forget we all had to learn it from scratch one day.
The learning curve as for genetics seems to be easier for one and steep for an other.
But how ever this is experienced we all have in common we had to learn this one day.
Wether this was via a visual representation, from trial and error or via classes which are given now but not back in the day.
I noticed also the way people learn and remember how things work is different.
If I take myself as an example I needed to learn breeding via trial and error and both positive and negative "surprises".
I tried to figure out where these "surprises" came from and this was frequently way back in the bloodline of a kitty sometimes so far away it was kinda mindblowing to me my kitties carried those genes with them through many many many generations in which it never became visable till that one fine day.

P.S. I currently help my husband with learning how to breed.
I feel I tell him the basics sometimes but he rolls his eyes with me frequently.
If that happens I know enough.
I assume too often he can digest more information than he can because to me it is so normal

[GhostCollective Resident]

well tad not all of us deal with statistics and programming like you do, so yes the charts can be difficult to read at times. Everyone learns differently and sometimes the explanations confuse us more then the original question due to all the information that gets thrown at us. We can't all the kitty cat Einsteins ya know!

[Tad Carlucci]

So, like I said, keep it simple. Look at only the main column.

If it's above, that is, up on your screen .. ^ (that way) .. it's more dominant.
If it's below .. v (that way) .. it's more recessive.
If you can't find it, we don't know.

See? No math required. Just read the words, and know up from down, and you're all set.

[Kayleigh McMillan]

(07-31-2013 04:23 PM)Tatiana Cheng Wrote:  ... Everyone learns differently and sometimes the explanations confuse us more then the original question due to all the information that gets thrown at us. ...

That is actually a very good point.
Knowing something inside out doesn't mean one is always capable to relate to someone who doesn't know much about a subject (yet) and can lack the ability to explain things well.

[Sanura Snowpaw]

Just because you think something is basic or easy does NOT mean it will be for another person. We all learn things in different ways. For some people, myself included, showing a chart of the Mendelian inheritance will make their eyes glass over because their brain simply does NOT process things in that manner. That doesn't mean I do not understand genetics or how to breed KittyCatS. Heck I have taught quite a few classes in the past where I simply presented the information in a different way and it clicked for people who had been breeding and hearing about breeding for ages.

I know others who have a hard time with certain terms such as dominant and recessive so they prefer common and rare.

We need to remember everyone learns differently and each brain processes things at a different speed and in different ways. Also remember at one point we all were starting scratch and it was some kind person/people who helped you learn and understand in a manner that you could comprehend. The best way to thank them is by helping others with as much kindness and patience and more when passing it on.

[GhostCollective Resident]

ty Kayleigh and Sanura. It is because of people like you that I have stuck with KC for so long, besides the absolutely adorable kitties.