Pedigree Anonymity (2)

[Winter Phoenix]

I see some of the points being made for anonymity, and if it were possible, an OPT OUT button seems the best way. But I much prefer a pedigree page that lets me track the DNA all through the 'kitteh stream' to origin, the ability to see everything there is to see underneath the hood, and if the price of this must be a lack of privacy. I am willing to eat that. Not sure what the hell I would be hiding from. " ARE YOU THE ONE THAT MADE THIS BLAND GENESIS COCO CAT???" Yah, thats me!

[Kayleigh McMillan]

(02-05-2013 03:21 PM)Micaela Lemondrop Wrote:  I'm throwing my hands in the air and giving up on this whole issue of snobbery/elitism/etc.

Being pleased with a cat I bred doesn't make someone an elitist or a snob. Some of the cats I've been most pleased and most proud of are not even 9T cats. The trait count has also never mattered to me, nearly so much as "Is the cat pleasing to look at? Is it cute?" You can say it's like a signature on a painting or... you could even liken it to posting your pretty cat on flickr, or keeping a blog/journal about your cats. In this case, to me having my name on the pedigree with cats I bred is no different than keeping snapshots of the cats you breed.

I seriously don't see why this has turned into people assuming that there's some sort of kitty clique or kitty snobbery or kitty elitism! That honestly makes me sad. Maybe I'm naive but I like to believe that we are all awesome members of an awesome community.

I'm pretty sad as well and perhaps naive.
It never occured to me a hobby and taking pride in establishing a breeding line was wrong, snobish, elitish, fascistic or what ever hurtful label we can find.
I breed KittyCatS as a hobby the money part is not at all important to me and earnings I don't even take in consideration when it comes to funding my kitties.
If the community I always loved so much becomes so hostile over something as simple as breeding virtual animals I come to think is this really a hobby and what is wrong here.
I really need to digest some of the inputs given.

[SadieRose Beaumont]

(02-05-2013 01:34 PM)YerNuthin Resident Wrote:  Wow does this mean people will find out my alt is an escort at Dirty Talk lounge?

(02-05-2013 02:18 PM)SadieRose Beaumont Wrote:   Kudos to all the established breeders. Not only is your work being celebrated by assigning status, but it adds to the community. The changes to list all information justifies all your hard work and contributes to the FUN and EDUCATIONAL aspect of this virtual hobby. I believe most avatars are intelligent enough to keep confidentiality and TOS intact. However, I do understand the privacy issues regarding individual avatars or alts. Perhaps there could be an option for breeders to enable/disable the feature as needed? Please? Less Headaches and more Fun!!!

KittyCats, The must fun in any virtual world!

It actually is not about snobbery etc; The hue & cry is most certainly aimed at keeping specific breeding traits 'absent', in order to not downsize the market. OCCUPY KITTIES! Jes' sayin..........

[dakillakm Resident]

I think it is worth mentioning, as well, that if people want to be what is considered "elitist" by some, then that is their right too! We all have our own ways of judging whether or not we want to buy a kitty. If there weren't people who really didn't care about pedigrees and just bought for shown traits AND people who prefer to buy from people who have put months into a line, the market would suffer. Each faction is important, no matter where you fall in the spectrum. Because human beings are vastly varying creatures, I just don't think that being able to see the breeder name will change people's buying behavior in any major way. Maybe I'll join the naive group too with this last statement

[Khea Karas]

When people refer to "Elitism or snobbery" it is not about being proud of your cat. We are all proud of the cats we breed. Its about the attitude certain community members (who are guilty to have even started this mess, and who continue to comment and support the idea in this very thread), have about people who wish to buy cats, breed them, and either then sell the parents or babies of this breed. They forget it also take skill to even know what to buy, have to skill to pull out those traits, and its not just about winning the "lottery" on an awesome starter.

Those of you with this notion, should do well to keep their mouths shut about it, and stop judging those who do this. Its non of your business. Some people breed cats for fun, but also there are those that treat it as a business, and there is NOTHING wrong with that! Frankly Im sick of hearing from new breeders that they FEAR to sell their cats...and all because what this idea implies when someone doesnt own a full line. We are meant to be a welcoming community, free of judgements...so those of you who act wholly than thou, yet continue to do this are guilty nothing more of the snobbery and elitism we speak off. You are causing division in the community...its wrong and sad.

Having got that off my chest, the problem i see with full disclosure of breeder/owner names comes down to privacy. I don't use alts to breed yet I understand if someone wishes to do this..then it is their choice. Who is anyone to say that they shouldnt do this, and take away their anonymity?

I do also see this opening up a "black market" for kitties....as others have said, I do see it making way for people to go directly to the original breeder who would then create a monopoly on certain traits....simple because they were lucky on starters and got those traits first and someone wants the right to the "original" line. It would kill the need for auctions, and eventually be damaging to shop sales. Why wander the markets when you have all the info you need online to obtain the kitty you need?

I have to say I do love the option to still access my own cats, even after being sold. Why not remove names entirely and just leave the pedigree open then? Well we know this will never happen since there are so many egos in this community, hell I also love to see my name on the pedigree of cat I once bred, but I would RATHER NOT see it, if it made the pedigree open access for all.

As for the option to turn it on/off....well in theory it sounds great, but I do believe it will then give way for those who have it off, to be labelled as dishonest or dodgy in some way or another.

Therefore, I think the best conclusion we can have with all this, is to return the pedigree to its original state and move on, as I dont see how it is possible to make everyone happy on such a provoking topic.

[Vamps Cheeky]

(02-04-2013 09:57 PM)Sanura Snowpaw Wrote:  Personally I think showing the breeder is only going to lead to more elitist attitudes that if you haven't bred out a certain amount of that line you aren't a so called "good breeder". Which has already caused people to feel badly for what they breed and sell and made them rethink what they buy because they aren't willing to spend thousands of lindens on something they won't be allowed to sell until they have owned and bred the line enough for those buyers to consider them an actual breeder. This attitude also has caused many new people to KittyCatS to feel badly because they don't own the grandparents or whatever, to me the thing I love about KittyCatS is the community and I just see this making the community more bitter and elitist which isn't something that sounds like fun in the least for me.

Personally I have to disagree. Seeing who bred the original box will let you know if that person was really breeding the line to keep or to sell. I know some of my lines I only breed them to sell, and I rarely do more than 2 or 3 generations of inbreeding to get what I really want out of a cat (most times I'm mixing it in with otherlines not going for purebreds). Having the option to see who bred the cat is a perk not a con. If people are so worried about the elitist opinions out there, they need to realize that the people who feel like they're elite often have worked their arshes off to get the best cats possible. So yeah maybe not all of us can afford to work with stellar lines, but at least we'll know where the lines we buy came from so we can look at others from those lines and know what to expect as possible hiddens. I know from my experience as well that breeders don't always *gasp* keep their live cats....some of us loan them or give them to friends, pass them to someone we knows loves that fur when they retire. Being able to still access our bred cats lets us see who likes our lines as well, so we know what groups to target our advertising to.

[KittyCat Princess]

hey all.

i wanted to take a moment during this discussion, where some people are feeling very passionate about their views to share a little bit.

please if you are able, try to remember that each person, no matter what their view thinks their view is right, and i'd say most all come from a place of really CARING. we all have different ways and things we fear and love, but this community is an amazing example to me of a diverse collection of people, from all different walks of life, who CARE. it's evidenced in your passion, creativity, generosity, and the overall way you interact with each other. EVEN in conversations where there are differing views.

i applaud you ALL for that. i don't know of a community i've seen online in the past that has conducted itself as kindly as you all do. (holds back the number as to not reveal her elderly status )

even with the few numbers of people who lose their temper or come off a little harsh in their posts, it's NOTHING compared to most forums and communities i've seen. EVER. Period.

we really do have a special community. i don't know how it happened, but i am so thankful. you all are inspiring in your own way. from the more vocal of you, to the silent ones, to the ones who are afraid to post but IM to share. each of you makes up an integral part of this community.

my hope is that as we dialogue more about this, we'd not forget that fellow community members CARE too. in their own way. if you will, please try to imagine each post written in the kindest tone possible. OR, if someone says stuff that seems a little "mean"... try to step back... and take a look at them, how they must be feeling... and see perhaps, a person who is frustrated cuz they care and don't know what else to do.

i vote for being kind and honest in as much as possible, while having the grace for each other to understand the passion and dedication in this community.

thank you all very much.

callie

[Devilness Chant]

My point is...you can look in a pedigree and see the original breeders without plastering their names on every kitty. We now have the option to open our pedigrees up for all to see and to go back as far as they can. Even Liri's pedigree does that.
So why does everyone's names have to be on every single kitty?

To go into the history of a kitty it's the last breeders choice to open up the pedigree so others can look as far back as possible. So why not make this new thing an option also?

My pedigrees are open for all to see, but that is my CHOICE. We should have the right to CHOOSE how we want to display our kitties. I was disappointed to see that wasn't on the voting options.

[JazzFire Resident]

I am new to the Cat community and have no problems with the privacy issues.
But if the main idea is to let people have more freedom with the pedigree why do we need names. Just open the pedigree so all can browse and track traits back.

[penfold83 Resident]

(02-05-2013 05:52 PM)devilness chant Wrote:  My point is...you can look in a pedigree and see the original breeders without plastering their names on every kitty. We now have the option to open our pedigrees up for all to see and to go back as far as they can. Even Liri's pedigree does that.
So why does everyone's names have to be on every single kitty?

To go into the history of a kitty it's the last breeders choice to open up the pedigree so others can look as far back as possible. So why not make this new thing an option also?

My pedigrees are open for all to see, but that is my CHOICE. We should have the right to CHOOSE how we want to display our kitties. I was disappointed to see that wasn't on the voting options.

Nods devilness that's one of my main beef's about it.. just give us the choice and not imposed on us.. im sure no one will moan about it then.

But im a firm believer of going and asking a person about the cat and what it hides, its builds friendships get the community talking with each other. not just looking in the proposed ped.