Pedigree Anonymity (2)

[Aryala1 Resident]

I am seeing a certain level of paranoia here that is undeserved and not useful. For instance, the juxtaposition of a breeder, say Mom Linden and an owner, say Mom Catlover does NOT indicate that the two Mom's share a typist any more than that all the avatars named Linden are run by a single typist.

Examples: half a dozen times in the last year I have purchased large numbers of kitties and boxes from other breeders who were downsizing. Every one of those kitties that I still own will show the original breeder and my name as owner, but I don't have any kitty alts, not one. There is nothing proven by a pair of names shown as breeder and owner but that at least once, a kitty was sold. We all buy and sell cats, box and live. It proves nothing regarding who types our avatars. This entire fuss is blown up out of all rational proportions.

It may not be hard to put two and two together as quoted above, but there is no proof given. Just don't answer any questions that belong to another avatar. Really...

Hope there's a little more relaxation soon.
Elly Hazard

[Kikii Littlepaws]

I don't like to think of myself as an elitist or a snob ... and I hope that I've never given anyone that impression! But, I really do feel a great deal of joy, excitement and yes, even pride when I have taken a cat that I bought from another breeder and coaxed out hiddens or introduced new & different traits, and I finally get that "purrfect" kitten I was after. When I sell that kitten - or that kitty's kittens - I am happy at the notion of my name staying on there as the breeder. The art analogy was pretty perfect, in my opinion - showing my name on the kittens I've bred out is like placing my signature on a painting I've created. I also feel that it's the right thing to do to have the breeder of the kitty I began with listed on their cat, as well!

I do see both sides of this conversation, and I can understand some very legitimate reasons for being concerned about having alts "exposed" without having been given the chance to opt in to all of this. Reasons that are not remotely shady! Speaking as someone who, in the past, has run a moderately successful business in SL (yes, I have alts as well!) I always kept work and play very separate. I had the avatar that I created/designed under, and an avatar for just hanging out with my friends, and who could go a couple of hours without being sent notecards or IMs asking me if I wanted rental space in a mall, or if I could do custom work for them. (I know, I'm bad, but one little me can't possibly do 24 hour customer service, that's unreasonable!)

Bottom line: these situations may be in existence as it stands right now - that some of our lovely kitty friends have moved cats to alts that they normally prefer to keep private & unassociated with their "main" account, thinking that there would be no reason to worry about exposure, because this "breeder tag" didn't exist before. So, perhaps the best compromise is the one that Pira has already mentioned: let the cats bred out before this point in time remain without the breeder tag (or leave it masked), and go forward with it in the future. That way, people who may want to move cats over to an alt for getting the multiple "special birth" kittens can still do that - but they'll know they need to move it to an alt they don't mind having associated with their primary account.

[Kayleigh McMillan]

Alts can be very needed indeed.
And I sure have them for my peace as a creator in SL I just need them so if others have them for what ever reason I understand that as well.
Breeding in peace in an alt can be very needed and being able to not assign such alt as breeder to a cat seems crucial.
So an option to hide alt breeders would be much appreciated.
Not all alts are used for shady business practises they can be pretty useful for a variety of tasks
Maybe there could become an option to link an alt breeder to our main account so the main account is the breeder via a sort of validation system?
Not sure if at all possible ofcourse ...
I personally don't need it as much as my alt is clearly linked to my main visa versa but I can understand some people like to have that option.

[Devilness Chant]

I still say it's redundant. You can see the names of the ppl that made the other kitties in the pedigree anyway. There is no need to slap a bunch of names to one kitty.

As I have said before. I have nothing to hide. I do not use alts. I do not hide who made what kitties in my lines. I do however find it insulting, and almost fascist, that ppl feel the need to have their names slapped all over "my" kitties.

Normally I try to be diplomatic or use sarcastic humor. But I feel too strongly about this subject to use nicer tactics. So I will be blunt.

When I first saw all the names on my kitties in my pedigree I honestly felt violated. To me it's like saying I can't breed my own. To me it's like saying it's not my kitty it's everyone elses.

If you want your name on all the future os of your kitties then don't sell them.

I think we have gone past the point of pride in our work, to needing to feed our egos. I have to admit I am very disappointed by all this and hope we at least get the option to turn this whole farce off.

[dakillakm Resident]

Most of all I like being able to see the pedigree of kitties I have sold/given to an alt/etc. I understand some of the concerns but frankly, people are going to be elitist whether or not this option stays or not. Obviously if someone DOES feel that way then they have already been putting it into practice. I actually think this will allow me to sell more cats where I didn't want to before because then I would loose the "credit" for them because once someone else owns them it's hard to tell where it came from.

Anyway, I freely admit I have not yet read alll five pages so I apologize if this is a repeat of what someone has already said.

[veronika Darkwatch]

As I have already stated I for one am very pleased at being able to see the breeder and owner history on a kitty i own, this is a personal preference and one many seem to share. However some people dont agree with mine or others views on it and although i dont share their concerns, I can understand them...some people may not want an Alt to be associate to them for a very valid reason...although im not 100% sure that how the change is presented would directly point a finger from one breeder being an alt of another..but nevertheless its the persons prerogative to keep their Alt anonymous. Also the elite arguement...true we dont want to see elitism in the market but as already pointed out, their are some that perhaps feel they are elite already and i personally dont think this change will alter that perspective at all, either by making it better or by making it worse.
Either way, in short i understand the reasons people have against the change even though i dont share the view. The only way I can see around this is giving each avatar a choice...put a check box under My Account to either show or not, that way giving the option to each individual as to whether they want their name displayed or not...those who do not can remain as 'Someone Else'... seems the diplomatic answer to me.

[Kayleigh McMillan]

It is perhaps a matter of perspective.
I'm known to obtain a lot of cats from a variety of breeders who made the desirable combination to use in my own line of cats or to just make pets rigth away just because they are so gorgeous.
But when I own a cat which is clearly bred by someone else and this cat helps me to improve my own lines I don't feel bad that breeder's name is displayed in my cat.
Stronger even if I really like that cat I likely go search in their profile to see if they have a shop to obtain more pretty kitties I might like.
We all use eachothers kitties to help improve our own lines so basically we are more on the same page than we might know maybe.
But yes as said some might feel it is violation of their cat or "fascistic" even if they hold a breeder and owner name while others feel the complete oposit and find it useful.
There might be disagreement about this and about if this is useful or rightful or not and we can obviously discuss that and perhaps we never agree because I see both sides of this topic knows strong contradictive opinions which we might never be able to find a mutual agreement about.
I for one like to vote to skip the "elitish" label from this discussion I think it is pretty scary people throw with that term just like that and label people and often times without even knowing them!
That is very judgemental and what if you judged that wrong?

[Mirsoul Resident]

(02-05-2013 09:50 AM)Kayleigh McMillan Wrote:  We all use eachothers kitties to help improve our own lines so basically we are more on the same page than we might know maybe.

I for one like to vote to skip the "elitish" label from this discussion I think it is pretty scary people throw with that term just like that and label people and often times without even knowing them!
That is very judgemental and what if you judged that wrong?

I so agree with your entire statement, but felt the need to chime in on these two specific statements. If not for purchasing kitties from other breeders, my lines would not be where they are now. So you are absolutely right in that we all use each others kitties to accomplish our own breeding end results. And I dont' mind at all if someone else's name shows on my pedigree.

Elitist...again I agree. Now as I stated earlier, there will always be a level of snobbery...that is just human nature and something that we will never escape. The only way to over ride these labels is to maintain the KittyCats community by keeping it fun, light hearted and inclusive of ALL breeders. Answer questions when you can, help a struggling breeder, and most of all...laugh and have fun. Everything else is moot

[Gloria Marchant]

I personally agree with Elly (Ariala), and I'm quite shocked while reading some replies to this thread, some people is beyond overreacting at this point. And some considerations about fascism (?) are not only extremely offensive for KittyCats staff but plain stupid. This is not the right place to use such words especially because fascism has absolutely nothing to do with this.

[Mirsoul Resident]

(02-05-2013 01:40 AM)penfold83 Resident Wrote:  

(02-05-2013 12:02 AM)Mirsoul Resident Wrote:  

(02-04-2013 11:05 PM)penfold83 Resident Wrote:  

(02-04-2013 10:54 PM)Mirsoul Resident Wrote:  Hmmm...I honestly have not run into any "elitist" types....there is snobbery no matter where you go. So to name or not to name will not quell that. For me I like to know where my kitties came from, and I like to see where they go. I guess my question for those who don't want their name on their work is why? Like I said privacy is moot since you obviously sell and auction...why would you NOT want your name on a line you developed and worked on?

like the reasons i posted in here and in this thread http://kittycats.biz/forum/showthread.php?tid=7381 and what sanura has posted too.. do you really want this ?

Again Pen...maybe it's because I don't use alts..but I honestly don't understand. And if someone can look me up and ask me about a specific trait that I may or may not have, for a specific price...again that is up to us as contributors to the secondary market to accept or to counter offer. I like the option and think that the tranparency is a good thing.

Its not just about alts... and how can you counter offer when the said person has made a deal with whom you bought your kitty from, there not gonna tell you lol

And again, it does appear to be about alts..that is what has everyone in an uproar. For me, I could care less who's alt does what, I don't have one, don't see the need to. And if someone decides to purchase a kitty from someone else because they struck a deal....no biggie there either

I have always been of the belief that if I can't provide a trait, or don't have one currently available, I will point a potential buyer to someone I think may have what they are looking for.