Profilers

[Rogue Jinx]

Apparently, it is now against Rene's TOS (yes, he changed his TOS) to use his RM Profilers AND Torgen's Profilers...as in having and using both in any combination.

He messaged me and threatened to turn my profilers off unless I got rid of the Torgen ones.

I bought another Torgen's on my alt and discontinued using his.

Anyone else having this issue?

(sorry if this isn't the right spot to put this)

[999ShadowCat999 Resident]

you might wanna read this recently started Forum post
you are not alone
https://kittycats.ws/forum/showthread.php?tid=30695

[Tad Carlucci]

This is the biggest problem: everyone will think it's just them.

EVERYONE using RM Profilers is at risk.

The problem is there is no good way to get the word out that everyone should be switching to Torgon's profiler's and web site.

[Rogue Jinx]

Honestly, Torgen's just needs a lot more reviews so his pops first for the new breeders. I'm making one now.

[Minx Diabolito]

He thinks if he has some words that state it as a 'term' then it makes his bullying okay because he can claim you went against his terms of service. What he does is not okay at all and will never be. Most people purchased his profiler before that term was ever there. I doubt they would have bought it if it was there and they knew before they bought it that they were paying to get a dictator in their store bullying them.

For people who bought the profiler in SL, when you try to leave a review it will tell you can't because you didn't use MP for your purchase. But you can still leave a comment people will see attached to the reviews.

Here is how you can still leave a comment on Torgon's profiler if you did not buy on MP. Open the reviews tab, and then select to to leave a 'comment'. Just be careful not to break Marketplace TOS so do not talk about the RM profilers and bad experiences, just the wonders of Torgon's and why it is awesome and preferred ^.^ You can also use this way to leave comments on RM profiler which say what he does to make us choose and it is not fair. Again tho, just be careful not to be too personal or he gets those reviews removed. It is also worth doing a report to LL in SL to tell them what he is doing and how he threatens to turn off or disable your product, or has done and how you feel about that. They need to know just how many people he has done this to. If we don't report it they can't know the scale of his bullying so please consider taking time to write a report. We talked about how to report it that way and other associated things in this thread here https://kittycats.ws/forum/showthread.php?tid=30695

Hope this helps somebody, hugs to all ^.^

[aidenvaIeska Resident]

(02-07-2018 11:36 AM)Tad Carlucci Wrote:  This is the biggest problem: everyone will think it's just them.

EVERYONE using RM Profilers is at risk.

The problem is there is no good way to get the word out that everyone should be switching to Torgon's profiler's and web site.

I think that the solution to this ongoing problem is so simple, yet inconvenient for some that it's overlooked. No business person does something that is detrimental to their business. As long as they are making money, they will continue. So it falls on buyers to make choices based on the business' History. Most of us know the words of Martin Niemöller's anti Nazi poem "First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew. Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist...etc...Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me."

The principle is the same here. As long as people continue to use a product sold by someone who is Well Known to mistreat and bully consumers, there is no incentive for him to change anything. I use Torgon's profiler with a clear conscience and feel that by doing so am supporting those who are being bullied even though I myself am not being victimized or in danger of being victimized. Others may do well to stop complaining while they continue to use that other product. Money Talks. I don't even use that other product's web page for searching traits because it bolsters the bully's sense of power. So just Bite the Bullet and make the right, if not convenient, choice. Decide where our priorities are and act on them. In the end, our choices define us

[Tad Carlucci]

My point is that it's so easy to violate the ToS one goes in-world to tell people about the problem. At some level that makes you no better than he.

And he's filing complaints about negative reviews and comments on the Marketplace, getting them taken down. So even that can be a problem.

For several weeks, now, I've been monitoring the market shares for the two products. His losses have dropped off once he became #2. So, perhaps, he's being a bit less abusive. I know he's still hassling people, but it's not causing so many losses as before. Time will tell. But it looks like it will be a very long time before his share becomes insignificant.

[Emilia Darkwatch]

The best way for sure is to promote Torgon's profiler and site, especially to new people who may well not be aware of this ongoing situation. Best to keep them out of it as much as is possible and just steer them towards the better profiler option. If enough people leave comments or reviews on MP about RM they will have to look into it and take it seriously as something which is not just affecting a small number of people, but of course we must all be careful not to break the MP TOS, so stick to facts as tempting as it is, and validly so to just go all guns blazing at him. The latter will cause the review to be removed... trust me I know lol... as I did that initially some time ago when I just had enough of his BS. As well as leaving a review/comment, you may also flag the product on Marketplace... there is a small text saying so on the right hand side of the product page, which again will bring attention to the fact all is not good with it

Personally, I refuse to use the RM site at all now. I don't search for cats there anymore and will not support him in any way. I actually find that Torgon's has a better selection anyway, but even if not, I would still refuse to use the RM site on principle

[Arwen Swordthain]

For new breeders looking to purchase a profiler the price of Torgons is always going to be an incentive to buy that one rather than RMs, the main reason I can see why they might choose to buy RMs over Torgons is the mistaken belief that it displays a picture of the cat when it does not and has not since before Torgons was even released over a year ago. That he continues to get away with false advertising on the MP while getting negative reviews removed is something that LL seem not to be taking any notice of, I wasn't going to piggyback comment but I feel that maybe we all need to and simply state "does not display cats image". Its a true fact and if he is asking for multiple comments stating the same thing to be removed LL may sit up and take notice.

I too no longer use RMs site to look for cats, there are still breeders using both whether they are on his hit list or not I don't know, maybe he has decided to stop hassling people but since he hasn't changed his TOS I doubt it and guess its only a matter of time before these breeders find their RMs disabled.