Some Thoughts on Advertising Terminology

[Kayleigh McMillan]

Lol guys I need a brain implant!
Saga I <3 your new logo

[Sara Franco]

(05-29-2012 01:35 AM)Malicia Python Wrote:  Mind that most of the breeders around know their cats and make rightful claims about their cats‘ potentials. Those will be able to provide any proof to verify their cats. But there have been some cases of false advertising that may have burnt some of the newer breeders, either made out of ignorance or maybe even to mislead on purpose. I noted some of the most common „promises“ and tried to point out what truth they contain and how to verify the cat‘s potential. In case of doubt, it is best to contact the seller and ask, ask, ask.

pure:
Usage: Both parents had this trait, too
Implies: This kitten has both genes of the mentioned trait
Truth: If not bred to the most recessive end of the parents‘ potential, the seller cannot really grant the hidden trait being the shown, too. This statement can be especially doubtful if the seller does not own the grandparents. Recessive traits often skip several generations and only show with the right partner.

Actually, this term is quite outdated from the times,the trait hierarchy was not commonly known and ppl feared the more dominant trait would show again (mistaking when the more dominant trait of the other parent showed.) When the trait is the most recessive around at the time being it is rather redundant - or even wrong if some undiscovered trait may be in the hidden. Usually finding a more recessive trait is a nice thing, but if it is an undesired one to the person buying the cat, it can be annoying to them - esp. when this is about a new trait.

hides:
Usage: One of the parents has this trait, shown or hidden
Implies: This is the hidden trait of the cat in question
Truth: Usually analyzing the pedigree against the dominance chart proves this claim right or wrong. Though often you find that the claimed trait simply cannot be in the cat because it is the hidden trait of the parent that gave the trait shown in the baby. Thus, if it is the more recessive trait of the parents, the parent who had the advertised trait may have passed their hidden trait. If the claimed trait is nowhere to be seen in the pedigree, the claim can be rightfully made, though. An honest breeder will provide the proof.

in BG/ ancestor has:
Usage: there is some trait in the background, usually the grandparents
Implies: The baby may have this trait, too
Truth: This is honest but wishy-washy. If the mentioned trait is more dominant than the shown, it wont ever show again in the offsprings (if not brought by another mate). if it is a very recessive trait, it may be there or no. If all the offsprings of the claimed in BG trait show a more dominant trait there is a chance the more recessive trait was dragged along. Even a genesis trait might hide the mentioned trait. The only chance to really know is to breed out this cat with a suitable partner.

sibling has:
Usage: Obviously to state the siblings traits, one or both parents have passed this trait
Implies: This cat has the same trait hidden
Truth: Again, an analysis of the pedigree and the dominance charts can show if the promised trait can be there. When you have the more recessive as the desired trait in one of the parents, you have this or a more recessive in the baby, if both parents have the desired trait as a hidden, there still is a chance. Ask for the siblings pedigree and check carefully, again an honest seller will provide the proof.

Parents‘/Grandparents‘ names in the pedigree
Some people name the cats for their traits and rightfully do, but there is a chance these names can be made up, too. A name change whenever made shows in the pedigree. Mind any differences in the cat‘s info and the pedigree page.

I agree with you I always add "MAY" if I' not 100% sure about what is hidden and I think this is ok.

One more thing that I don't like when people display their cats is that they hide the AGE, I bought old kitties when I started because of this, and it really can't be innocently, they hide the age of OLD kitties only, and I see many doing it, sometimes it annoys me and I leave the whole shop just because of it, it means dishonesty to me, show the age and people will buy it old if they want but don't let them buy without looking (I forget to look sometimes so yes it happens)

I always show Name, Age and Love, other stats are not important in my opinion, probably energy is when you buy 100% love ones.

Thanks for sharing the info and thoughts I will try to read all the replies soon as my brain is not working with full power at this late hour lol

[Liriel Garnet]

(05-30-2012 02:26 PM)Tad Carlucci Wrote:  The "2/3" odds are the odds that I, being greedy, keep the Mysterious offspring for myself and sell you a Curious offspring which hides Mysterious. But for a given Curious cat I do sell you, the odds are 1/2 that it contains Mysterious.

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This dichotomy is why sellers feel traits get spread around so fast. The odds are strong that you'll sell someone else the genetics in your "failures" even through the odds are "even" they'll actually receive the genetics.

While it may seem counter-intuitive, the 2/3 probability is actually accurate, and any professor of probabilities will tell you the same. It's all based on a set of probabilities that changes when one (or more) possibilities are removed (as we've done here by eliminating the double-hidden). If you wish a better explanation, feel free to google 'monty hall problem' and 'probabilities'. It's a manifestation of the same thing.

[Tad Carlucci]

The "2 in 3" odds are the odds you, as the seller, are selling a box showing Curious, hiding Mysterious. That is, if you sold 30 boxes from those parents, odds are 20 will hide Mysterious.

For the purchaser, buying one box from those 30, the odds of that box hiding Mysterious are 1 in 2.

I suggest you do, in fact, check with a professor. Since you won't trust me, perhaps you'll believe him when he tells you the same thing.

And, no there is no problem here. There only appears to be because the other boxes .. those showing Mysterious .. are being ignored because you're not offering them for sale.

Or, to put it another way .. for your purchaser to have 2 in 3 odds of purchasing a Curious hiding Mysterious you would need to allow the purchaser to randomly chose from those 30 boxes after you've held back the 10 showing Mysterious.

[Kayleigh McMillan]

(05-30-2012 07:42 PM)Sara Franco Wrote:  One more thing that I don't like when people display their cats is that they hide the AGE, I bought old kitties when I started because of this, and it really can't be innocently, they hide the age of OLD kitties only, and I see many doing it, sometimes it annoys me and I leave the whole shop just because of it, it means dishonesty to me, show the age and people will buy it old if they want but don't let them buy without looking (I forget to look sometimes so yes it happens)

I noticed this as well

[Yip Jannings]

(05-31-2012 06:56 AM)Kayleigh McMillan Wrote:  

(05-30-2012 07:42 PM)Sara Franco Wrote:  One more thing that I don't like when people display their cats is that they hide the AGE, I bought old kitties when I started because of this, and it really can't be innocently, they hide the age of OLD kitties only, and I see many doing it, sometimes it annoys me and I leave the whole shop just because of it, it means dishonesty to me, show the age and people will buy it old if they want but don't let them buy without looking (I forget to look sometimes so yes it happens)

I noticed this as well

I thought everyone looks at the stats before buying!? I always do! You want to know what you're buying right?
I 'hide' all stats except love percentage. I do because showing all text looks so messy when you have multiple cats for sale. You can see if a cat is gaining love or already even at 100%, you don't get a newborn.
Age can not really be hidden.. you touch a cat and you see it, don't even have to load a pedigree.

[Sara Franco]

(05-31-2012 09:02 AM)Yip Jannings Wrote:  

(05-31-2012 06:56 AM)Kayleigh McMillan Wrote:  

(05-30-2012 07:42 PM)Sara Franco Wrote:  One more thing that I don't like when people display their cats is that they hide the AGE, I bought old kitties when I started because of this, and it really can't be innocently, they hide the age of OLD kitties only, and I see many doing it, sometimes it annoys me and I leave the whole shop just because of it, it means dishonesty to me, show the age and people will buy it old if they want but don't let them buy without looking (I forget to look sometimes so yes it happens)

I noticed this as well

I thought everyone looks at the stats before buying!? I always do! You want to know what you're buying right?
I 'hide' all stats except love percentage. I do because showing all text looks so messy when you have multiple cats for sale. You can see if a cat is gaining love or already even at 100%, you don't get a newborn.
Age can not really be hidden.. you touch a cat and you see it, don't even have to load a pedigree.

Yes but when I was new to KC I forgot to look assuming it wouldn't be too old anyway, didn't pay attention to details and I bought old cats by mistake.
I understand your reasons, but some leave many stats shown and hide Age especially and some hide it only for old cats and show it for young ones, which can't be innocently.