Dominance Orders for furs, eyes & traits in Google Docs

[Tad Carlucci]

Most likely, especially from the types where there are only a few values, such as Pupils, the distribution function is biased. By that I mean the starters probably hand out more Big hiding Big than Big hiding Small. So, the difficulty is not in the breeding process, it's in finding a PAIR of starters which both contain the required hidden.

Once you leave the use of Starters, the problem is genetic drift .. which is to say your own actions can make it harder. If you spend a generation or two not caring AT ALL about Pupil, especially if you never get lucky and actually see Small appear, the odds are fairly good any Small hidden alleles disappeared from the small group you've been working with, and you'll need to re-introduce it when you do decide to care about it.

[Kayleigh McMillan]

(04-08-2012 05:54 AM)Tad Carlucci Wrote:  Most likely, especially from the types where there are only a few values, such as Pupils, the distribution function is biased. By that I mean the starters probably hand out more Big hiding Big than Big hiding Small. So, the difficulty is not in the breeding process, it's in finding a PAIR of starters which both contain the required hidden.

Once you leave the use of Starters, the problem is genetic drift .. which is to say your own actions can make it harder. If you spend a generation or two not caring AT ALL about Pupil, especially if you never get lucky and actually see Small appear, the odds are fairly good any Small hidden alleles disappeared from the small group you've been working with, and you'll need to re-introduce it when you do decide to care about it.

Sound indeed as a proper explanation.
My Breed approach is putting a known 8T or 9T Bengal Snow ( rounded ears, perfect rainbow, curious tail, mysterious white whiskers and eventually a shade if I want that) against a starter or other desired kitty.
From these I breed a sibling pair.
When the siblings breed an offspring which shows a lot of traits I did put in to it I back breed the offspring to the parent with the other gender and create a new breeding pair this way or I achieved my goal.
It takes a while but I like this best so far no wonder I release so little
I'm curious how others breed btw!

[Nenya Eun]

(04-08-2012 06:26 AM)Kayleigh McMillan Wrote:  I'm curious how others breed btw!

About the same way as you do, Kay.
Only difference is that I usually use more dominant furs / eyes than you do, but the rest is alike.

Nen

[Kayleigh McMillan]

(04-08-2012 12:41 PM)Nenya Eun Wrote:  

(04-08-2012 06:26 AM)Kayleigh McMillan Wrote:  I'm curious how others breed btw!

About the same way as you do, Kay.
Only difference is that I usually use more dominant furs / eyes than you do, but the rest is alike.

Nen

Cool to know:-)
Yes using more dominant furs I do as well it depends really:-)

[Sisch Firecaster]

This is a great read!

Because I have a relatively small cattery (I started out with never having more than 30 breeding cats, now I'm at 40) I only lately began back-breeding a bit more (and then I often let my heart decide and unboxed kitties rather more because of the wow factor they had for me than because of what they might hide). Despite this "unprofessional" breeding I do get a relatively high percentage of 6/7 traiters from my cats, and have a few 9ers around which I use to pull traits.

In my experience, the rarer the fur and ear/tail/whiskers, the harder it gets to have a lot of them on the same cat. I'm working on making an army of kitties with Odyssey no. 1 ears (I'm totally addicted to them! ), for example - and very often, if the ear passes, along with the rare fur, then the eye colour and tail and whiskers tend to be those of the more dominant cat. It's driving me nuts!

[Kayleigh McMillan]

I like your way of breeding Sisch.
It gives way more surprises I think!
I'm kind of a control freak
And ody 1 ears omg! I love them so bad as well:-)

[Khea Karas]

Back breeding has it purposes. For example if you are trying to reveal a fur or eye of a cat that has been hiding.

However when I breed I almost always take 2 boxes of a pair and breed those until I get my desired kitty. Assuming both parents have completely different hidden & shown traits:
Cat A + Cat B = Kitten C with all of A + B Traits showing &/or hidden.
Then,
Kitten C (1) + Kitten C (2) = Potentially Kitten D showing everything.

If you just back bred continually all you will get is a kitten that hides only one of the parents traits.
Cat A + Kitten C = Kitten C with Cat A Traits.

Because a cat will never breed out a trait unless it has that trait or something better hidden. So even though the Kitten C has Cat B traits, Cat A does not, so therefore cannot breed it out (show) on the kitten.

Of course there are always exceptions to the rule, but this is a good starting point. With all the smart people on this forum, this is my simplified way (layman's terms lol) of explaining how to breed all those traits into your cats

[Kayleigh McMillan]

(04-10-2012 05:26 AM)Khea Karas Wrote:  Back breeding has it purposes. For example if you are trying to reveal a fur or eye of a cat that has been hiding.

However when I breed I almost always take 2 boxes of a pair and breed those until I get my desired kitty. Assuming both parents have completely different hidden & shown traits:
Cat A + Cat B = Kitten C with all of A + B Traits showing &/or hidden.
Then,
Kitten C (1) + Kitten C (2) = Potentially Kitten D showing everything.

If you just back bred continually all you will get is a kitten that hides only one of the parents traits.
Cat A + Kitten C = Kitten C with Cat A Traits.

Because a cat will never breed out a trait unless it has that trait or something better hidden. So even though the Kitten C has Cat B traits, Cat A does not, so therefore cannot breed it out (show) on the kitten.

Of course there are always exceptions to the rule, but this is a good starting point. With all the smart people on this forum, this is my simplified way (layman's terms lol) of explaining how to breed all those traits into your cats

[Nocshadue Balbozar]

Is there any way we could 'sticky' this post so it stays on top? I think it's one we all come back to again and again.

[Khea Karas]

(04-24-2012 10:05 AM)Nocshadue Balbozar Wrote:  Is there any way we could 'sticky' this post so it stays on top? I think it's one we all come back to again and again.

I second that.