Thought about the Miracle Menagerie Bottle

[JC Aferdita]

See, this is why you should ask stuff in the group or ask the CSRs if you are confused about anything with the cats. Because they can help you and explain so you don't have to go through mistakes like that.
I sent one of my first cats to the menagerie too, this was before the Cattery, it was before the Magic Menagerie Bottle. I was in so much distress they told me to file a ticket. Since it was my first time making the error they brought him back for me. So did you file a ticket for your mistake? I don't know what their policy is now that the bottles exist, since I learned my lesson and only menagerie boxes and cats I am sure I do not want to keep. And since this was ages ago you did this, perhaps the cats are gone from the system completely by now and getting them back isn't possible? But if you filed it the moment you realized there might've been something they could've done? I don't know. Kittycats Support is awesome, and they know about the whole new-owners-pressing-all-the-buttons-they-can-at-once-dilemma. Which is probably why they created the bottles in the first place. But they aren't inhumane, so filing a ticket might've done something?
Do remember that the Miracle bottle that you praise so highly and want one too. that's 3 cats you can take back from the last 2 years. imagine 2 years, menagering a cat every other day and you can only get back 3? It's kind of them to let us have 3 cats back, but there are just so many cats during those 2 years that were menageried, it's hard to choose.

I always think: When in doubt, ask in the group and/or file a ticket.

[Kayleigh McMillan]

Actually I think it is not such bad idea to have a magic menagerie bottle concept for sale.
It would solve a lot of problems and if it is a steep price such as the Permapet bottle is priced it has a certain amount of discouragement and makes sure it is used for those mistakes which just happen and no one has to be sad anymore for losing a dear cat for ever.
It is not like the collectibles go sky high as in the beginning of KC from that perspective releasing such a few years ago would give a heavy business angle for the retreiver.

If it was to be my bussiness I would be ever so proud my product was so loved way after the matter!

And since everyone could buy such retreival set if they collected enough K$ or otherwise there is nothing unfair about it.
I'd pay a high price to see my first breed an almost completely Genesis cat back again!
It is emotional value and that has no price or is priceless rather.

What would make it even more fair ofcourse is when everyone before or after the introduction of the 7 days retreival menagerie bottle had the change to retreive 3 kitties free of charge cause the problem behind this and being new is more complex than the now available 7 days ease down periode can cover.
No CSR can change that they can assist but being new and not knowing things is for some people something they like to solve and learn themselves.
With or without help of a CSR or breeding friend it just takes time for things to completely kick in.

I for one asked little questions when I was new perhaps out of fear to sound stupid so there was a lot of trial and even more error in my cattery
To think I've bred a starter with a starter for months and ofcourse I auto-repartnered them as that was more romantic in my book :-)
These days there wasn't something like "break-free" so I had to pay that price after I met a breeder, who wanted to help this newbie, who suggested to buy myself a nice traiter to work with my starters, uh duh! :-))
No wonder I had so many almost completely Gemesis cats LOL!
It were cool times though uncovering and discovering everything about the cats.

[Keltora Edenbaum]

I was very new to kittycats at the time this mistake was made and I had yet to discover the CSRs, forums or support tickets. I couldn't seek help in avenues I didn't know existed at the time. By the time I had realized what I had done, it was too late and so I chalked it up to a stupid mistake that I learned from. After that I calmed down the excitement, and took the time to research all I could about kittycats before I did anything else in regards to them.

I do ask the CSRs for help, and I do send in support tickets. Once I had the knowledge they were actually there. The kittycats support staff are some of the most helpful out there.

Thank you very much.

As to speaking out in the group I don't. I'm a very shy person. I have never asked for help in the kittycats group and will never do so. I'm not comfortable doing so. I rarely speak out in the forums and won't unless I really have something worth saying.

This is why it took me about a year to say anything about the menagerie bottle.

People who are new to anything won't often ask questions for fear of sounding stupid or they don't know what tools are out there to get help. New breeders I've spoken to over the years are so excited about these adorable cats and they just jump in feet first without reading anything like I did. Like many have. Many don't have the knowledge of where to go for help. I was one of those.

I still hold by what I said. Every one should be able to benefit from the miracle menagerie bottle new and experienced breeder alike. When a group is alienated it does create problems. This menagerie bottle is an example of this. As you said JC in your earlier post...the miracle menagerie bottle was never meant for newer players. That is leaving out a large part of a community that wouldn't grow without newer breeders coming in. From a business perspective that isn't always the best move.

I agree that kittycats are very generous and helpful with their customers. Never stated otherwise. There are always areas that could be changed for the better though and in my opinion this is one of them.

[JC Aferdita]

The problem with putting a steep price is what we see with the perma-bottles today, customers wanting them to arrange a sale on the bottle, to lower the price etc.
I think a much better approach, since so many new players are jealous of this bottle, is to finally remove it. I don't think it was meant as a permanent bottle anyway, it was just made to make sure everyone had a chance to get old cats back. To make it fair when the Magic Menagerie bottle was released. Now that the Magic Menagerie bottle have been here for so long it might be time to finally remove the Miracle one. Since, I don't think, jealousy is one of the things kittycats aim for. Back in the day, it was created to make things fair, if it isn't anymore perhaps it has outdone it's welcome. I will log in later tonight and pick up my copy of the bottle before it is removed if that is the road they decide to take.

Kittycats are one of the most welcome communities, I'm a horribly shy person as well, it takes time for me to open up. When I was new I would choose times when I knew there were less people online to ask my questions in group. Because then I would be an idiot to less people. I would also tp to the mainstore and hang out with the CSR that was currently working. It's a lot less scary talking to the one person. But the welcoming hugs and encouragement I recieved from the get-go really helped me get me out of my shell

And I do completely understand why you want a new bottle. I, too, have cats I do wish I hadn't menageried after the magic bottle stopped working. But I do think a new bottle would cause more problems than it would fix things.

[Kayleigh McMillan]

(07-14-2015 11:00 AM)jc aferdita Wrote:  The problem with putting a steep price is what we see with the perma-bottles today, customers wanting them to arrange a sale on the bottle, to lower the price etc.
I think a much better approach, since so many new players are jealous of this bottle, is to finally remove it. I don't think it was meant as a permanent bottle anyway, it was just made to make sure everyone had a chance to get old cats back. To make it fair when the Magic Menagerie bottle was released. Now that the Magic Menagerie bottle have been here for so long it might be time to finally remove the Miracle one. Since, I don't think, jealousy is one of the things kittycats aim for. Back in the day, it was created to make things fair, if it isn't anymore perhaps it has outdone it's welcome. I will log in later tonight and pick up my copy of the bottle before it is removed if that is the road they decide to take.

Kittycats are one of the most welcome communities, I'm a horribly shy person as well, it takes time for me to open up. When I was new I would choose times when I knew there were less people online to ask my questions in group. Because then I would be an idiot to less people. I would also tp to the mainstore and hang out with the CSR that was currently working. It's a lot less scary talking to the one person. But the welcoming hugs and encouragement I recieved from the get-go really helped me get me out of my shell

And I do completely understand why you want a new bottle. I, too, have cats I do wish I hadn't menageried after the magic bottle stopped working. But I do think a new bottle would cause more problems than it would fix things.

Wow JC you entirely sound like a CSR and a bad one too.
You just calling her out to be jealous so sad

[Tad Carlucci]

Which goes to my thinking it should be replaced with a web page everyone can access, but which does not provide a means to retrieve the Menagerie'd cat.

Given how the current web pages work, it should be an extremely simple change. Just disable the click-to-retrieve function, remove the date limit on the SQL query, remove the check for having already pulled back three from the Menagerie, and add the page to the menus.

That way, we can re-visit the Menagerie, possibly examining the parentage and offspring (using the normal rules for Pedigree access); which, I think, was really what people wanted back when the long-term bottle was introduced.

[JC Aferdita]

Wow, I'm curious as to why you think I sound like a CSR? And a bad one?

I learned growing up that the 'They get to have one so I want one too' is a form of jealousy. Perhaps I am wrong? English also isn't my first language, so I have a tendency of not being able to express myself properly with the right words and I also read words and sentences differently than native english speakers. So if there is something I have missed in this conversation, please tell me? What I have gathered so far is:
Old breeders get to have a bottle - new breeders want one too.
The new bottle could cost a lot, like the permapet.
It's unfair that the old breeders get to have this bottle while new breeders are stuck with the 7 day one.
New breeders make horrible mistakes in the beginning and need the bottle.

Here is also a summary of what I tried to say in my post:
Putting a high price on this new Menagerie bottle, a lot of people will find that unfair and wants discounts.
The Miracle, if I remember correctly, was never meant to be permanent thing. Perhaps it's time to remove it if it causes conflicts in the community?
Kittycats community is amazing and so helpful and there's no need to be scared.
Even as an Old Breeder, I've made horrible mistakes and understand the want for this new bottle.
But I still don't think it's a good idea.

I'm sorry for all the offence and heartbreak I caused with my post, that was not my intention.

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(07-14-2015 01:21 PM)Tad Carlucci Wrote:  Which goes to my thinking it should be replaced with a web page everyone can access, but which does not provide a means to retrieve the Menagerie'd cat.

Given how the current web pages work, it should be an extremely simple change. Just disable the click-to-retrieve function, remove the date limit on the SQL query, remove the check for having already pulled back three from the Menagerie, and add the page to the menus.

That way, we can re-visit the Menagerie, possibly examining the parentage and offspring (using the normal rules for Pedigree access); which, I think, was really what people wanted back when the long-term bottle was introduced.

The webpage might be a better idea than the bottle, yeah

[LibGwen Resident]

Kayleigh, that was a personal attack. That's not allowed. And right after JC said how hard it is for a shy person to make posts.

[Aubreygrace Starlight]

Keltora I feel your pain. I joined kc July 2013 and i accidentally menageried this beautiful mega i had bought, and my first one ever. She was so pretty, i recently found a pic of her and i wanted her back to just love her! I had NO idea about the 7 day retrieval until recently...sad huh? but mistakes happen and it's only fair that tehy produce a new later date bottle for everyone. I also menageried collector cats i was planning to keep too, but I think it's a great idea, don't let anyone make you feel bad for yoru suggestion!

[Keltora Edenbaum]

I will just say a few things because I didn't want this to turn into a hostile discussion and yet it really feels like it has gone that way. I really regret that and I'm sorry to see it.

JC: Telling someone that they are jealous because you have something that they don't can be taken the wrong way. It is all in how someone perceived the tone of what you type. Just like I have taken your replies in this thread as condescending. It doesn't mean you meant them to come off that way, but that is how I perceived them. Of course the tone of my replies to you could be taken as sharp and snippy. It goes both ways. That is why I didn't take things you were saying personally because I don't presume to know what is going on in anyone's head as they type their own thoughts out.

It simply doesn't matter to me if you feel I'm jealous of you because you may have something I don't.

It isn't jealousy to point out discrepancy in something that alienates a large part of the community because there is a need for something to be done in regards to the Miracle Menagerie Bottle. What I'm suggesting is something in way of good business.

Kittycats is a wonderful company, but no company is perfect. Feedback is always needed for improvement. That is why this section of the forum was made I would presume? I'm simply giving feedback.

LibGwen: I don't feel Kayleigh was personally attacking anyone so please let's not go this route for a discussion topic that really shouldn't be getting this heated. I think she was just trying to point out how what was said could come off in a very negative manner. It is all about perceived tone.


Thank you everyone for all the feedback. Please let's just try to keep things on a gentle note since this was never supposed to create friction. I'm beginning to really regret even making this thread.