Kitty pricing!

[MitsuruKirijo06 Resident]

(09-29-2017 06:28 AM)Illuminatra Resident Wrote:  Kitty Pricing...

Do our current prices reflect a market that once was OR do they represent a market that is now?

Technology (AKA: the Profilers) have made it so much easier for a consumer to compare prices. In years past, a consumer had to TP to each of the markets, spend countless amounts of hours walking around - trying to find a cat that catches their eye, at a price that they can afford OR want to afford. Now-a-days, this way of consumerism has changed drastically. We can look up the traits that we are in search of in a matter of minutes using the web-markets & once we find what we are in search of, we can TP directly to these cats. This eliminates the need to walk around comparing prices, traits, etc. If a cat that we TP to costs more than we're willing to spend, we can quickly TP to the next one that might fit our budgets better. Before the profilers - we didn't have this "luxury." We would just have to settle for what we stumbled across during our searches - and sometimes that meant spending more.

Auctions... Now-a-days at auctions you rarely see those bid-wars, those big slap downs, etc. A lot of the time there's hardly anyone bidding on the cats. Why is this? It's because many Auctioneers have stressed to breeders - "this is where you can sell your cats." This ideology that has been hammered into people's heads has caused a nasty domino effect. Everyone's going to auctions to sell their cats, not to BUY & sell their cats. Nobody knows that they should be buying cats too. And think about it for a second. People in our community talk. If they see the same people trying to sell their cats at auctions, without ever supporting anyone else's cats - people will be like, "no, don't buy his/her cat, because they don't ever buy anyone else's." You may think that this is silly or ridiculous - but that's how communities work. That's how this one works anyway. Auctions used to be highly coveted events where people would go to BUY and sell cats. When did this change? Why did this change?

Breeding... There are a LOT of good breeders out there now. Before, you would go to a handful of people that were known for breeding the best cats. Now-a-days, that's not really the case. A lot of people know how to breed for pure traits now. Pure traits always go for more money, but when you have more breeders out there that know how to "play the game," pricing becomes even more competitive. I am going to put a conspiracy theory out there - but maybe, JUST MAYBE - the reason why Confetti cats are so hard to breed, is because KittyCatS themselves - wants breeding to be a bit more tricky. It's been over 2 years since they came out & no one has been able to make and keep a 9T Confetti cat. People have gotten close - 7Ts, 8Ts even... but nope, not 9Ts. These cats don't breed traits as well as normal furs do. Why is that? Why haven't we been able to solve the puzzle over 2 years later? Like I said, there isn't just a handful of people that know how to breed and do it well anymore. Many of us know how to breed down to lock traits in, etc.

I don't know... that's my 2 cents.

I buy auction cats when I can but I personally do not think the sellers should have to buy cats at the auction they are selling cats at. I think the problem is there just is not enough buyers and we should not have to depend on the sellers to buy. I believe in a real life auction you have buyers and then you have the sellers and the two do not usually mix. If we have say 10 sellers then we need at least 10 buyers to show up who are not selling and ideally more but the market is in such a rut that it does not seem possible. I can not use real money to feed my cats for reasons I will not explain here and I depend on cat sales to buy my kibble. Sales in store are usually bad so I depend on auction sales to feed my cats. Anything extra I do usually put back into the market and buy more cats from people. Its just my 2 cents and everybody is entitled to their own opinion.

[Illuminatra Resident]

Mitsu,

I do agree that there needs to be BOTH buyers and sellers present at auctions in order for the auction to run successfully. I think what I was really trying to get across in my post about auctions is that, there are just more sellers present than buyers. This is a "problem." In order for the auction to be successful, you need both. Are we not getting many buyers at auctions because there are too many auctions? Are we not getting them because there simply isn't enough buyers? It's tough really. I do love those auctions where everyone goes home happy. It's really nice to see.

[Minx Diabolito]

I think the problem is there are too many auctions and also alot of auctioneers put people off going to auctions with some things they do eg. assuming they can mass tp or spam you without caring what you want or asking you. That puts people off going because you are hassled and spammed to go, which is v.offputting for many and does not feel like a happy choice.

[Ellen Ireland]

Most of the time, "sell one, buy one" is a good practice for auctions and a goal to aim for, but we have to be realistic about the fact that it is not going to happen 100% of the time. Sometimes the cats don't sell or sell only for the starting bid which is lower than the starting bid on other cats in the same auction (and the seller doesn't have the L$ to make up the difference), or the person who has panel 10 may not have the L$ to buy another cat during the earlier part of the auction before that cat sells. So, yes, it is a good policy and people should be encouraged to do it but it can't be a rule.

I do agree that the market is depressed and that is one of the reasons why I stopped doing my own auctions. There are often more auctions than the market can support, and I would like the auctioneers who have years of experience and who can accurately project the hidden traits to be the ones who draw the crowds, if anyone at all does.

Also, I fully understand and respect the reason why many auctions require that the seller must own at least one grandparent of the cat, so that people don't profit off another breeder's generations of hard work, but it does serve as a disincentive for those of us who regularly buy other people's cats (I buy way too many of them myself, because it is so hard to resist) and whose highest quality cats are generally the offspring of cats purchased at auction from other sellers. The higher prices that we pay for another breeder's high-quality cat are an investment in producing higher quality kittens, and while some of those kittens will be kept and bred to produce higher quality grand-kittens from that purchased cat, it is also true that if one purchases two high quality cats at auction (usually from different breeders) and then one gets six or eight really good but very similarly traited cats out of that breeding, it would be good to be able to sell a few of that generation while still keeping some of them to work on the next generation.

I have given up on using pricing tools such as the KittyCat$ Calculator for now because the market is not what it was when I started a little over two years ago. There are many closeout sales with 9T cats being sold at $75L to $150L which is less than it cost to produce those cats. I find those sales very difficult to resist even though I know they are not good for the market. As a result, once again, I have a large number of very nice cats waiting in boxes in my cattery that I did not breed myself.

I do have my own lines that I have been breeding for my own enjoyment (double mocha latte!) but they are not likely to be attractive to others at most auctions because they aren't going to be 9Ts with the newest or the most recessive traits. I have decided to continue breeding as a pleasurable hobby, and even if nobody else wants my idiosyncratic cats (for example, I'm currently working on the combination of caramel eyes and butterscotch whiskers, "just because") I will still breed them for fun, and attend auctions for fun as well.

Basically, that's the bottom line: we are doing this for fun. Sometimes we need to be reminded not to take it too seriously. Don't harass auctioneers or create drama, just enjoy the kitties!

[katsiaryne Resident]

I was away from KC for a while, then started breeding again on my new account (this one) about a year ago. One thing I've noticed with regards to auctions is how frequent they are, with multiple ones daily. Back in the day, there were several big name auction houses (Theo & Draco Nacht even before Nacht Island; Too Adorable or even Juice Berry maybe; Breeder's Borough, etc...). These auctions were big, popular events attended by dozens of people. Often, we had to take off our hair and HUDs to prevent lag, and endure a few crashes, because there were so many people. The atmosphere was fun and chaotic, and these were social events where many people attended to mingle and have fun, rather than attend exclusively for commercial transactions. Now, there are many auctions every day and most seem attended only by sellers. I think the buyer pool is being stretched too thin. I'm not sure what the solution for this is, but I do think the change explains the lack of enthusiasm, ninja bidding and bid wars. It might be wise for larger sims to host fewer, but better attended, auctions if possible.

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(10-26-2017 05:15 AM)Ellen Ireland Wrote:  I do have my own lines that I have been breeding for my own enjoyment (double mocha latte!) but they are not likely to be attractive to others at most auctions because they aren't going to be 9Ts with the newest or the most recessive traits. I have decided to continue breeding as a pleasurable hobby, and even if nobody else wants my idiosyncratic cats (for example, I'm currently working on the combination of caramel eyes and butterscotch whiskers, "just because") I will still breed them for fun, and attend auctions for fun as well.

Caramel & Butterscotch kitties sound so delicious! Now I'm hungry.

[Lumiae Resident]

I'm a casual breeder of kittycats since 2012 (on older alts) and also sold cats for a brief 3 months, in all those years I've only attended 2-3 auctions but I've bought a lot of cats from different breeders through their stores.

My feel on auctions and why I don't go:
1. I've been mass-spammed TP to go to a particular auction, they even spam during mid-auctions which makes me disable group notice or block the person.
2. I don't chase after the latest traits, not all latest traits are desirable (to me at least)
3. I've no time. I rather buy at my own convenience.

When I buy cats:
I look at the traits and hiddens and if its something I want. If there are several cats that have the traits that I want to add to my line, I will buy the best cat that offers me good value and saves me time on back-breeding and that's not necessarily the cheapest cat. I shop using profilers but I also walk around kittycats markets because not all sellers use profilers. I've been to fire sales but I never find anything that I want there despite full 9T cats on offer.

I don't think sellers should worry about fully traited cats selling at 100L, they are that price because the market is saturated with plenty of similar cats. I don't think the fixed price per trait works anymore either, because the number of kittycat traits has grown exponentially over the years. If you really want to have some measurement in pricing a cat to sell, then it should be line-bred vs random-bred or experiments. And that's pretty easy to tell when one looks at the pedigree. And new (serious) breeders should be educated, when buying line-bred cats or experiments, so they can make a sound purchase.

my conclusion:
Its hard to make a profit from breedables, unless you are super lucky to discover a new trait and someone wants to pay you lots for it. I think before you even talk about pricing, you should survey the amount of similar cats out there that are not sold. Clearly, supply outstrips demand. And since Kittycats now allow us to menagerie kitties to buy kibbles and accessories in-world, that's what I'm gonna do with my boxes.

[capricorn99 Resident]

I used to love breeding and selling my kittycats. Because of the practices of people selling their kittycats at 100L for say a 7T or 8T kitty, I gave up breeding and selling them. It just has not been worth it to do so and spend lindens renting a store. I do miss it though. [/size]

[MRxGQxFUTURISTIKxKG Resident]

(12-21-2017 04:44 PM)capricorn99 Resident Wrote:  I used to love breeding and selling my kittycats. Because of the practices of people selling their kittycats at 100L for say a 7T or 8T kitty, I gave up breeding and selling them. It just has not been worth it to do so and spend lindens renting a store. I do miss it though. [/size]

My personal opinion on the mater here. Is for cats of all sizes and traits up too 10t sound be price over 1k that's my opinion. For one we are not the creators so we didn't spend hours making the furs or all the texture work it takes. To me anything over 1k is asking for prices as though you develop the product. That's the creator thinking process in me. I think anything over 5k for a collect able is over pricing and will sit in shops for ever because at the end of the day you asking people to spend more then 20 dallors on a product that again you didn't sit for hours to draw not didn't do the mesh to the product those are creator content prices. I do not find that appropriate at all. I think when people get involved in world in companies that give you the option to resell a item. The all sudden go in it thinking this is going bring them some real profit it will not because no one going really spend them kind of prices from someone who reselling something that they can invest in the money they self they not going buy over price cat when they can take that same amount money and invest in they own breeding. That's the point people not looking in too. You not going make some big profit like a content creator but you can make enough to enjoy the hobby of breeding enough lindens to enjoy spending on sl but most these high prices is people trying make profit for cashing out and i frown on that because they didn't develop a product you just playing a breeding game. I have breeded Kitty cats for a few years now. I do it for the enjoyment when I resell its just to put back in to my hobby in breeding to reduce my cost. When I want to make real profit to cash out I do the real work and actually create and work on making textures and invest in meshes an put them in my store and depend on that because then i can put real prices and get real sell for a real profit because its my work my hours of work in that product.

[Ivy Norsk]

Since this necro thread has resurfaced, I just want people to realize that it is old, and while some of the issues raised in it are still current, some are not. The situation with profilers in particular is very different from when this was written.

[HikariItsumo Resident]

Indeed, especially since it seems one of the profilers has been turned off by its creator recently.