Too Much Happiness Decreases Happiness?

[Shamu077 Resident]

I have been cuddling more of my breeders to save on Milk costs lately.

What I am noticing now is that Happiness Decreases if you cuddle them too long.

For example, I can get a cat up to about 93% happy with cuddling for 30 mins or so. But if I am busy, AFK, or fall asleep and don't Drop them when Happiness peaks, then when I return they have lost happiness. From 93% to 83% while still being Cuddled or Held for 2 hours of Cuddling, for example.

If this is expected behavior, then it should be so stated in the Manual!

I don't consider this a feature, but a Bug. The time and cost of these kitty's is enough (considering the chance of ever selling them) without more bugs that make the breeders' time and cost even greater.

And yes, they are not hungry or asleep while cuddling. Hunger is typically 1% and they are awake with Energy over 25% during the entire time cuddled.

Shamu

PS: The number of cats held at one time makes no difference, the loss in happiness occurs for all of them.
I have just one cat cuddled now, who had lost happiness (down to 72%), and who was at 93% after I picked him up for 1/2 hour. He is now down to 84% while still attached to me, and has not increased in Happiness for the last hour!

[HikariItsumo Resident]

Losing energy makes happiness go down, no bug there.

Also when you say you have a cat at 72% after cuddling 30 minutes... Are you sure you are reading the correct stat or is that a typo ?
I have been breeding KittyCatS since the start & I have never had that happen.

Last thing, I don't see one second where it would make someone lose money, the cats still have more than enough happiness to breed...


EDIT : you edited your post while I was answering to it....

(11-08-2015 06:58 AM)Shamu077 Resident Wrote:  I have been cuddling more of my breeders to save on Milk costs lately.

What I am noticing now is that Happiness Decreases if you cuddle them too long.

For example, I can get a cat up to about 93% happy with cuddling for 30 mins or so. But if I am busy, AFK, or fall asleep and don't Drop them when Happiness peaks, then when I return they have lost happiness. From 93% to 83% while still being Cuddled or Held for 2 hours of Cuddling, for example.

If this is expected behavior, then it should be so stated in the Manual!

I don't consider this a feature, but a Bug. The time and cost of these kitty's is enough (considering the chance of ever selling them) without more bugs that make the breeders' time and cost even greater.

And yes, they are not hungry or asleep while cuddling. Hunger is typically 1% and they are awake with Energy over 25% during the entire time cuddled.

Shamu

PS: The number of cats held at one time makes no difference, the loss in happiness occurs for all of them.
I have just one cat cuddled now, who had lost happiness (down to 72%), and who was at 93% after I picked him up for 1/2 hour. He is now down to 84% while still attached to me, and has not increased in Happiness for the last hour!

[Shamu077 Resident]

(11-08-2015 07:13 AM)HikariItsumo Resident Wrote:  Losing energy makes happiness go down, no bug there.

At what point does Energy cause Happiness to decrease?

Are you saying that if Energy drops below 25% that Happiness then decreases as well?

And this does not apply to Happiness by Petting. I can pet a sleeping cat and easily get its Happiness to over 93%. So if I pet a sleeping cat with 24% energy, that the Happiness will be limited to something in the 80% range? That is not what I see.

Where is the Happiness and Energy interrelationship listed in the Manual?

I know hunger over 25% decreases Happiness and Love, but didn't know Energy affected Happiness also. I have been breeding kittycats for 4 years but always used Milk, so this is new news to me.

PS (added) Ok so I just picked up a bunch with Happiness under 75%, and Energy less than 25%. You cannot cuddle a sleeping cat, so they all had some Energy left. I am watching their Happiness increase and some have reached 0% Energy and are now asleep but Energy is increasing. I will see where it peaks out and report back.

The reason this "feature" costs more money is these cats are not near 100% Love. If I have to cuddle only when the Energy is high, then that takes more of my time, and in my case my time is not totally free! It would mean cuddling them at several times every day to cover their high energy range. Sorry I don't live in SL, even it if seems like it. One avoids this by BUYING Milk, which does cost more money. Another KC feature to increase their profits at the breeders' expense.

[Shamu077 Resident]

(11-08-2015 07:51 AM)Shamu077 Resident Wrote:  PS (added) Ok so I just picked up a bunch with Happiness under 75%, and Energy less than 25%. You cannot cuddle a sleeping cat, so they all had some Energy left. I am watching their Happiness increase though some are asleep. I will see where it peaks out and report back.

So here are the results of about 30 mins of cuddling my "Low Energy" cats"

Happiness Energy

89% 6%

89% 9%

86% 14%

86% 14%

88% 10%

89% 2%

89% 9 %

86% 13%

So all are now sleeping and gaining energy, and all gained Happiness from the low 70% range. But none stayed the above 90% plus range even when still attached. Some were in the 90% Happiness range but already lost Happiness because Energy was low but increasing, by the time I recorded the above numbers.

So essentially if you want to use Cuddling or Petting as a money saving alternative to buying Milk from KC, you must also only cuddle your cats when their Energy is high.
Otherwise you are just wasting your time since the cats will still drop below 75% Energy in less than a day. Well, it's an interesting hobby for those that don't care about expenses. My conclusion after 4 years.

Shamu

[MsMagick Resident]

Shamu,

I think you're confused. I cuddle instead of using milk. As long as their happiness smilie face is colored in, they have the "bump" that helps them gain love faster. It doesn't matter what the actual happiness % is.

Only newborns and permapets ever really have happiness in the high 90s, so don't get hung up on that.

They do need to be above 75% to breed and it can go below that even while they have the "bump", but just pick them up for a bit and it will go right back up.

I usually try to cuddle once in the morning and once at night so if I logon late the next day they aren't wasting time without the bump. (That also helps with keeping happiness high enough for breeding in case they'll be awake and ready while you're offline.) If you do that, it can be less than 30 minutes each time, since it only needs to be a total of 30 minutes a day, but I usually do at least 30 each time to be safe. I've also literally fallen asleep in RL while still online cuddling them and they were fine.

[Shamu077 Resident]

(11-08-2015 10:26 AM)MsMagick Resident Wrote:  As long as their happiness smilie face is colored in, they have the "bump" that helps them gain love faster. It doesn't matter what the actual happiness % is.

Hmmm, well when Happiness is 74% or less, the face is clear, so the number does matter. And IF you only have time to cuddle them once every 24 hours, then the maximum Happiness number also matters. Which was my point.

I normally can get the Happiness to 92-93%. (I never said the high 90's btw.) But continued cuddling then brings that number down, when I would expect it to at least Hold the Happiness. That is where Energy comes in play, since to get the high Happiness numbers you need for 24 hours duration (so you do not drop below 75%), you also need to have the Energy high. At least that is what was said here.

If I cuddle a cat at 99% Energy and Happiness does NOT drop after 30 mins of cuddling, then I will believe the Energy/Happiness relation. But as I showed in my last post, if the Energy is low, less than 20%, then the maximum Happiness only gets to the mid 80's. Will a maximum happiness of 86%, stay above 75% for 24 hours? Well I am testing that now - but I don't think it will, even though I cuddled the cats for over an hour in one time slot.

Since you cuddle twice a day, you don't need the higher happiness numbers to keep the 7 day Love cycle "bump". If I had the time to cuddle the cats twice a day, then I would not care what the maximum Happiness number was either - but that is impractical for me.

[MsMagick Resident]

(11-08-2015 08:25 PM)Shamu077 Resident Wrote:  But continued cuddling then brings that number down, when I would expect it to at least Hold the Happiness.

Have you ever known an RL cat that didn't get restless and want to be let down eventually?

The KittyCatS team have been pretty clear about the fact that 30 minutes a day is all that is needed for the "bump" and I know Kitten Longmeadow has told me more than once that more is unnecessary. My issue is that I'm not on at the same time every day. Therefore, I try for overlapping cuddle sessions.

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(11-08-2015 08:25 PM)Shamu077 Resident Wrote:  

(11-08-2015 10:26 AM)MsMagick Resident Wrote:  As long as their happiness smilie face is colored in, they have the "bump" that helps them gain love faster. It doesn't matter what the actual happiness % is.

Hmmm, well when Happiness is 74% or less, the face is clear, so the number does matter. And IF you only have time to cuddle them once every 24 hours, then the maximum Happiness number also matters. Which was my point.

The face CAN be filled in at 74% or lower. Try cuddling them for at least 30 minutes and then observing them 23 hours later. I've definitely seen it. In fact, it is my experience that they need more spread out cuddles to keep it above 75%, however it only matters if they are ready to breed. (You do need it to be above 75%, along with the other stats to be high enough, to get the double hearts.)

I do sometimes pick mine up when they are tired and finish cuddling them while they are sleeping in order to get their cuddles in... not sure if that contributes to why I sometimes see them with it filled in at under 75%, but unless they are ready to breed, I'm really only concerned about whether they have the bump. Once I went to a few Q&As and learned how things work, I got a lot less hung up on the happiness percentage.

[MsMagick Resident]

I didn't cuddle last night just to illustrate this. This is at about 19 1/2 hours after cuddling:

Happiness Solid @ 74%:
   


The funny thing is, two of them have gained happiness from 74% to 75% since I first logged on. (I was waiting to see if it dropped lower.) I'm sure they're happy to be getting a good night's sleep!

Hmmm... a bunch of them dropped down to 74% when they hit 10% hungry. Not unexpected, but I didn't know there was a line there.

       

[Shamu077 Resident]

(11-10-2015 06:41 AM)MsMagick Resident Wrote:  I didn't cuddle last night just to illustrate this. This is at about 19 1/2 hours after cuddling:

Happiness Solid @ 74%:

The funny thing is, two of them have gained happiness from 74% to 75% since I first logged on. (I was waiting to see if it dropped lower.) I'm sure they're happy to be getting a good night's sleep!

Hmmm... a bunch of them dropped down to 74% when they hit 10% hungry. Not unexpected, but I didn't know there was a line there.

Yep, I let my cats go for a little over 23 hours, after I had cuddled them for 60 mins, when highest Happiness was from 86 to 89% 23 hours earlier. Of the eight cats tested, 5 of them had dropped below 75% Happiness (72% - 74%), and 3 of them were still Solid Happiness. Of the cats still at 75% or higher all were still solid. What I did notice was the solid Happiness cats were still sleeping, meaning their Energy was high, over 80%. To summarize then, 2 open circles and 3 solid circles below 75%, and the solids were all asleep.

Since I have had trouble with the tags always updating, I woke up the 3 sleeping cats and then cycled them to 2D and back to 3D. THe Happiness circles were still solid.

Confusing results? - the circle clearly is not just related to the Happiness value.
I kept watching the still solid cats as they dropped below 75%. Again, no obvious pattern as to which ones remained solid or turned clear.

After another hour (>24 hrs from last cuddle), all the cats were below 75% and all the circles were open. I am thinking the circle is on a daily time cycle, that is different for every cat. What determines the 24 hour cycle, time from last box dropped, birth date, or time last cuddled? Since there is no documentation at all on how the happiness circle is determined, its anyone's guess.

The safest way to assure you keep the Happiness solid is multiple cuddlings/day - or Buy Milk, the preferred method from KC's view.

I did another experiment to see what the maximum Happiness could reach. I selected a cat at 98% Energy that had just awoken on its own.

Just before cuddling:
72% Happy
98% Energy
9% Hungry

After 30 mins Cuddling:
98% Happy !
85% Energy
2% Hungry

After 60 mins Cuddling:
97% Happy
78% Energy
1% Hungry

After 120 mins Cuddling
96% Happy
68% Energy
1% Hungry

So, as you can see, cuddling with a high Energy can produce very high values of Happiness. And continued cuddling causes the Happiness to decrease, because the Energy is decreasing. So this is the high energy test. The low energy test resulted in maximum Happiness only in the mid 80% range.

The cats cuddled at the higher energy also all stayed at or above 75% Happiness at the 24 hour mark, btw.

Does 10% Hunger also reduce Happiness? Who really knows, - Energy does, so why not food? As to to why the program is written like this - well if you Buy Milk you don't have to keep track of all these times - so was it programmed for inconvenience?
After all in the Cattery, you must use Milk or nothing - only us in-world breeders have the chance to cheat the Milk system by cuddling or petting.

PS

Quote:The funny thing is, two of them have gained happiness from 74% to 75% since I first logged on. (I was waiting to see if it dropped lower.) I'm sure they're happy to be getting a good night's sleep!

Yes on the kitty I cuddled at High Energy, when I checked on it 16 hours later it was 79% Happy. As I was checking the other cats, I noticed its Happineess moved up to 80%. I figured it was just glad to see me.

PPS
Even more surprising - just checked on the cat I got up to 98% Happiness nearly 32 hours ago - She was detached at 08:40 AM SLT, Nov. 9, 2015:

? 7T-f CL OB VAMP (9T BB?ADC OB?ONYX SC FLAME)
? 81 days ?? 100% ? 78% ? 85% ?? 0%

Happiness still 78%, after 32 hours, but the Happy circle is clear. Note High Energy and 0% hunger. Being rested and stuffed with food more important to Happiness than cuddling? (There is NO Milk rezzed on my SIM, don't even have it in inventory.) Well that's a typical cat!

[MsMagick Resident]

The solid circle is your indicator that they currently have the benefit of gaining love faster - regardless of whether it is from milk or cuddles - and, for cuddling, it is determined according to when they were cuddled. Kitten Longmeadow has discussed it at multiple Q&As, but I have never gotten it pinned down exactly re: things like how the clock runs when you do overlapping cuddles.

Basically just know that 1) if the happiness circle is solid, they are gaining love at the increased rate, and 2) they need at least 30 minutes of cuddling every 24 hours to get the benefit.

When the benefit wears off, the circle is no longer filled in. It does get filled in almost as soon as you pick them up again, so you obviously don't have to hold them 30 minutes before the 24 hour clock starts ticking. Therefore, it's probably not a bad idea to go a little over 30 minutes from the time you picked the last one up so you get some overlap time, but you don't need to cuddle them for hours - or get up all wrapped up in watching their minute-to-minute happiness (unless they are otherwise ready to breed).

The formula for the happiness percentage seems to be fairly complex, but it is not tied to whether the circle is solid and it's isn't really a factor in how fast they gain love - only in whether they are ready to breed.