(12-19-2012 08:13 AM)Tad Carlucci Wrote: (12-19-2012 03:16 AM)Nenya Eun Wrote: Which means if you unpack a Valentines 2011 now, it might hide White Russian, but not Bali Seal.
It can never hide Russian White, because that's been retired.
It can never hide Balinese Seal Lynx unless Balinese Seal Lynx has been demoted from a Special Collection trait or the box is question is part of that Special Collection.
We've been given to understand that few (none, as I understand it) traits are introduced in normal starters. And we've been given to understand that few (some do, but not many) of the Special Collection traits are demoted to normal starter traits and made available to normal starters.
Logically, they must limit the number of Special Collection traits which eventually make it down to normal starters. Otherwise the number of traits would grow and the odds of getting something 'good' in a normal starter would sink.
Also, logically, they must move some Special Collection traits down to normal starters to replace those retired which were available to normal starters. Otherwise, eventually, either they would be forced to stop retiring those traits or normal starters would have nothing left to hide.
This brings up an interesting point of record keeping.
We have Saga's charts working out the dominance relationships.
And we have deerylou's charts recording what was discovered, when.
But what we don't have is a record of whether a given trait could be proven to have come from normal starters. All we have, at this point, are the (appropriately) vague hints in the various announcements and the Our Cats section.
If we had that, then, if one wanted, say, Balinese Seal Lynx, and one wanted to do it on there own, from a starter, one could check the chart. If it was discovered from a special collection and has never been observed to come from normal starters or other special collection starters, that would greatly influence the decision process when looking for a starting point.
Here, "normal starter" means, to me, not only the generic starter packs available for sale but also defines the set of traits possible with all (other, future) Special Collection packs.
We almost always release new traits together with special collections, as most would buy those special collections anyway, avoiding that they would need to buy another pair of normal starters to get the new traits.
The normal starters do however contain those new traits as well.
Only in a handfull of cases there were "limited" traits which were only available trough a certain special collection, for example with the Daizies... In such a case, this is made clear to the breeders.
From the Daizies notecard:
"Lazy Dayzies - Easter 2011
The Dayzies guaranteed to carry one of the 4 New Eye Colors (Gerbera Purple, Gerbera Pink, Gerbera Blue, Gerbera Orange) in the collection and the Porcelain Shade as their secondary Eye & Shade genes. These new traits can be passed on to their offspring. The new traits are not in our normal starter packs and may never be."
(12-19-2012 08:26 AM)Nenya Eun Wrote: (12-19-2012 08:13 AM)Tad Carlucci Wrote: (12-19-2012 03:16 AM)Nenya Eun Wrote: Which means if you unpack a Valentines 2011 now, it might hide White Russian, but not Bali Seal.
It can never hide Russian White, because that's been retired.
It can never hide Balinese Seal Lynx unless Balinese Seal Lynx has been demoted from a Special Collection trait or the box is question is part of that Special Collection.
Can we have confirmation about that ?
I have always been told that if a cat has a hidden trait, it has it "forever", so why couldn't a Valentines 2011 (I stress the year : 2011) hide Russian white ?
A box, once it is rezzed and loads its traits, keeps its traits forever.
On rez, it will load the latest traits it can understand. If in this latest understandable version a trait was or wasn't retired, existed or didnt exist, that will define what is loaded or not.
( note that this no longer is an issue with boxes released after the update that launched the cattery. also refer to my previous post
http://kittycats.biz/forum/showthread.ph...1#pid20611 )
