Dispelling a common breeding myth

[Devilness Chant]

I bet Sax has a lump the size of Texas on her forehead from banging her head on her desk for all the times she tried to convince me that a dom can't hide behind a recessive. rofl To me if it was in the pedigree then one day it would be MINE! rofl
I think we all had to learn some things the hard way, but it was fun learning them. (not the part about Sax having a concussion) But over a year later, I'm still learning and having fun and trying to make room to open as many presents as I can!

[Vilandra Miles]

I think the phrase "pulling a trait" is used to clarify, that you need as recessive a trait as you can get to heighten the chances to actually SEE the hidden trait of the kitty you try to decipher. Trying to "pull" a hidden eye with a very dominant eye partner won't really do as the hidden would just end up being hidden again.

Just my 2 cents and trying to break a lance for those using the phrase.

[Kayleigh McMillan]

(09-06-2012 06:50 PM)devilness chant Wrote:  I bet Sax has a lump the size of Texas on her forehead from banging her head on her desk for all the times she tried to convince me that a dom can't hide behind a recessive. rofl To me if it was in the pedigree then one day it would be MINE! rofl
I think we all had to learn some things the hard way, but it was fun learning them. (not the part about Sax having a concussion) But over a year later, I'm still learning and having fun and trying to make room to open as many presents as I can!

ROFL I love these stories!
I'm learning still as well and this is what I love so much about KittyCatS they are certainly not boring

(09-09-2012 07:42 AM)Vilandra Miles Wrote:  I think the phrase "pulling a trait" is used to clarify, that you need as recessive a trait you can get to highten the chances of actually SEE the hidden trait of the kitty you try to decipher. Trying to "pull" a hidden eye with a very dominant eye partner won't really do as the hidden would just end up being hidden again.

Just my 2 cents and trying to break a lance for those using the phrase.

I admit guilty it was me who brought the chaos by calling it pulling traits, ...
Sorry guys

[Zann Canto]

Such good information! I did not understand what folks meant by "pulling" traits. The term was confusing, except in the sense that a recessive trait might be more likely to allow a less recessive trait to appear. Your post explains this misnomer very well -- and also helps me understand better how breeding for traits works, and why pairs yield varying boxes each time.

Thank you!

Zann

[Tad Carlucci]

I think of it as "picking up" and "pushing out", too. A dominant trait can be used to "pick up" a recessive; and a more recessive will "push out" that hidden.

The problem is mental models like this help up organize our thoughts, but often miss nuances.

So, when someone new comes along, they can easily think the model is complete and accurate when it's really just a short-hand for a much larger concept.

[anna Acanthus]

I hate displaying my blondness but i'm really having a hard time seeing how the term "pulling" traits can be confusing to people, and am getting rather annoyed at myself.

(08-28-2012 04:25 PM)Saga Felix Wrote:  There is no such things as one trait "pulling" another. Ever. Cat A has NO clue which traits Cat B has, or which one it's going to pass to the kitten. Believe me, however tempting it can be to believe in - the cats do NOT plan their breedings... The scripts do, and they do it randomly

Well of course a cat does'nt know eff all but WE can and therefore use a more recessive trait in one cat to try "pull" out the more dominant we know (or guess) is hiding in another, as explained above by Dev and Vila, and as Zann understood herself.

Don't get me wrong here, i'm really not nit-picking, just i'd like to understand what else people are understanding by this term which seems to me to be the best representative word we have to describe a certain process, and i just do not at all get what the problem is with it. Only when i do can i try to find a different way to explain to peeps.

Yrs truly,
Confuzled,
France

[Hamilton Lecker]

mmmm. I do not think you are nit picking Saga... Pulling traits is not the greatest expression.. I rather see putting a high trait kitty with a low or starter kitty as simply "Trying" to EXPOSE what traits are hidden and then continue from there.. It sometimes, but not always helps.. I still firmly believe that the "Server" is the master

[anna Acanthus]

(09-10-2012 12:05 AM)Hamilton Lecker Wrote:  mmmm. I do not think you are nit picking Saga... Pulling traits is not the greatest expression.. I rather see putting a high trait kitty with a low or starter kitty as simply "Trying" to EXPOSE what traits are hidden and then continue from there.. It sometimes, but not always helps.. I still firmly believe that the "Server" is the master

Lol hamilton, i must admit, sometimes i'd like to be Saga But i'm just Anna
We"ve been using the word "pull" for well over a year now and as far as i know we always know what we mean by it and this is the first time i've seen it questioned.

But your comment on the server being the master is a good occasion to re-iterate on some basics :
Of course, ONLY the server decides which traits you receive in that new box.
It has the trait data on each kitty, and at each pairing will randomly choose whether to give the shown or the hidden trait, the hidden being allways either the same or a more recessive trait as the shown (NEVER more dominant) but can only give a hidden reccesive if paired with same or more recessive than this hidden, and the same goes for the shown. In very basic binary terms; 1 or 0, = yes or no, ( forgetting the legendary phantom "maybe" we all had fun with in classes ) although of course, rather more complex in this case .
And the server is just a dumb program on a dumb machine, doing what it's been told to do; and this in a strange barbaric language that only the hardiest minds can bear trying to get around lolol.

I'm sure someone has a clearer, more simple way of explaining this, i'm not that good at it i'm afraid.

[Kayleigh McMillan]

(09-09-2012 11:58 PM)anna acanthus Wrote:  ...

Yrs truly,
Confuzled,
France

Makes me think a Confuzled Tail seems awesome LOL
I picture it a bit as a Fussy Tail but with a really Confuzled tip

[Sanura Snowpaw]

(09-10-2012 02:15 PM)Kayleigh McMillan Wrote:  Makes me think a Confuzled Tail seems awesome LOL
I picture it a bit as a Fussy Tail but with a really Confuzled tip

MUST HAVE!!!!