What is a Good Cat? - Printable Version

What is a Good Cat? - Printable Version

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What is a Good Cat? - Ivy Norsk - 03-14-2019 02:16 PM

What is a Good Cat?

There’s been a thread on pricing which is old and has bits of useful information but it’s not current. A lot of new people have joined KittyCats with the release of the new SweetCats Collection and the Birthday Cats. A lot of people are poking around and asking questions - about pricing, about traits, about the cats in general. One of the perennial questions that pops up in the Addicts chat is “Is this a good cat?”

That question can be answered in many ways, largely because people do the KittyCats hobby in different ways. You can say “all cat are good cats”. They are charmingly animated and come in a multitudinous array of traits. But most people are really asking “Is this a cat worth breeding and how much can I get for it?”

This is not intended to be the start of a pricing thread. But it is intended to show what is the sort of cat that people spend months developing - cats that take well over 1000L to develop - over (kitty) generations of careful mixing of traits and attention to aesthetic detail - and also breeding games based on trait names that KittyCats and the community have developed over the years. Please note that putting in 1000 lindens does not mean that you will get 1000 lindens out. Breeders of highly-bred cats will tell you, it’s a labor of love. You put in way more lindens than you get out - but the cats are gorgeous.

In the early days of KittyCats there weren’t as many traits available and the mechanisms of how to breed were just being discovered. In the early days, the pinnacle of breeding was the Quadruple Mysterious cat. You may have noticed that there are Mysterious ears, Mysterious tail, Mysterious whisker shape, and also the recessive eye shape is called “Mysterious”. Figuring out how to put all four traits on one cat showed that you understood what was going on. I regret that I do not have a picture of a Quadruple Mysterious to show you.

In our current days, I know one breeder who has done up a Quadruple Dreamy. Lady Magick (MsMagick) has a line of cats that have Dreamy tail, Dreamy whiskers (and maybe some with DoubleDreamy?), Dreamy Fold ears, and Sparkle or Crystal Dream eyes.

(The Bengal Black is a triple dreamy with tail, whisker and Sparkle Dream eyes. The Aussie Snow is the quad featuring Crystal Dream eyes and the Dreamy Fold ears.)

In between the Quad Mysterious and the Quad Dreamy, KittyCats themselves introduced the Triple Tiger with their Menagerie Tiger line. A Triple Tiger has Wild Tiger ears, a Tiger Curl tail, and your choice of 2 limited edition eyes that came out with the Menagerie Tigers: jade or blushquartz. These are often shown on bengal furs (for bonus points) but can be on any fur.

With the introduction of the Tiger! furs (based on the original Menagerie tiger furs) and the Tiger Fold ear, we now have an expanded range of Tiger cats. In the chat I have seen a number of people popping in to show off their Quadruple Tigers: Tiger! fur, Tiger Curl tail, one of the Tiger ears, and jade or blushquartz eyes.

Mind you, once the form has been developed, it gets easier to reproduce it by buying somebody else’s. It used to be really hard to get a Triple Tiger. Not so much anymore. But developing one through breeding, in whole or in part, does help to teach you how to breed.

Also the forms go together. It becomes apparent, if you spend any time looking at the cats, that Callie made certain traits to match each other.
This is my cat Camden:

Look at how precisely the Chocolate-Tipped whiskers match the Burmilla Blue-Shaded fur. That didn’t happen by accident. As you work with whiskers you will realize that the colors are Not the same on all shapes of whiskers: a Blonde-streaked Fussy whisker is Not the same color as the Blonde-streaked DoubleDreamy, which is not the same color as a Blonde-streaked Mysterious. Dark chocolate DoublePlush whiskers are burgundy shaded(!) but in DoubleSnappy they look more like a chocolate bar (with less prominent shading).

(Look at how the line of the DoubleSnappy whisker doubles the stripe on the toyger’s cheek.)

Auctioneers routinely tout cats that are “Matchy”. They are worth more money. They are cats where when you look at them, you say “that cat is perfect just the way it is”. They come from breeders who know the traits well and have put in the breeding kibble to develop the cat. The traits all come out onto the grid in starters as 1T, 2T, or 3T etc. Sometimes Headquarters helps: a lot of Toyger Snows were released in starters alongside Cream whiskers, for example. Here’s a Bubblegum Tiger! with Serendipity Glow eyes. The pink on both is the same. That’s not an accident.

Breeders often think of wonderful combinations from traits old and new that make for a superlative cat. This is a cat by Mirsoul Macbeth (Mirsoul):

Look at those whiskers! Those are Sassy whiskers in Butterscotch Tipped-black. The Sassy form highlights the tips at the end, and the tips perfectly match the rim in the Tapestry Royale eyes. Put it on the retired Burmese Sable fur and the combination sings. That took work. It took work even if Burmese Sable is dominant because it’s easy to lose a dominant trait. Sassy whiskers are mid-range; it’s hard to keep them on a cat line through the generations because so many whiskers are more dominant and will cover them up, and so much DoublePlush, DoubleDreamy, and indeed SwankyLite are lurking or showing on so many cats in the grid. Do not underestimate the mid-range traits. Many of them, like Sassy whiskers, are very nice indeed.

As this thread goes forward, I would hope that people would post pictures of well-thought-out cats and why they look special. We have the Showroom section of the forum for people to post pictures of their own cats to promote them and so I ask that this thread not be used for sales. This is ultimately meant to be a Discussion thread with illustrations.

What are the great cats you have seen? Also forms like Bastets (foxie ears, tiger curl on a russian black). Foxy Foxies. Amazing matchys.

RE: What is a Good Cat? - Luckylady Llewellyn - 03-14-2019 07:40 PM

What is a Good Cat?

Ivy, you are my hero! I want to be just like you when I grow up .... lol ....

Your thoughts were so well thought out and demonstrated by examples. At times, I get so frustrated by many of us in search of a 9t cat and that is all that is said. I, personally, enjoy many genesis traits, but by your exemplifying traits that blend together and (why) they are preferred together, it helps us see the "complete" cat for the gorgeous animal it can be! For me, I enjoy making different combinations, which don't always give me a great pedigree background of solid kitties ... for things like proofs. But, ENJOY making different cats and am not about perfection. We all like what we like ... which is amazing!

The many of you who love building pure cats and who deserve all the benefits of selling your creations, if that is what y'alls choose to do with them, have truly put in your time and "kibble" and well deserve the fruits of your labors. Especially, thank you for helping us see that a 9t is not a 9T, is not a 9T. Quality over quantity, if we seek a well-traited kitty that has many, if not all, the features we enjoy ... To each our own and 'viva la difference'. Thank you for blogging your experience with us.

Once again, I enjoy your perspective! Kudos....

RE: What is a Good Cat? - Arwen Swordthain - 03-15-2019 02:30 AM

I do actually have Quadruple Mysterious cats, as well as Quadruple Curious that I personally found more desirable despite not being the coveted 9 traits. I'll birth some after work and post pictitures.
Personally for me 9T is not the best cat, some eyes look better with Curious or Big as one or both traits and I love Natural Shade and often breed for it. Prior to Monochrome Whisker colour being released I would often breed for Silver to make a cat couture. I have always found that other breeders of couture cats apreciate this and it doesn't detract from value at auction.
I love to breed the dominant and think that can actually be harder as those hids love to pop and once they do you have lost your dominant trait, hanging onto a dominant trait can be tricky, pulling it pure is a lot more work, first you have to hide it in both genders, then check its actually hidden before attempting to pull it out from both cats to create a pure one, thats a long process of trial and error. That said there are breeders that breed for the recessive and thats ok too, we all have what we love and I think a good cat is one that you love regardless of value, a great cat is one you put up at auction and then wish you hadn't or one you can't bear to even think about putting up. I confess to many a sigh of relief at a no sale on my cats. Truly a labour of love here Smile

RE: What is a Good Cat? - Songdog Woolley - 03-15-2019 04:04 PM

Thank you for this thread, Ivy! Although I admit that I tend to structure all my breeding project goals to end in "couture" cats with a full 9 traits, an interesting project has been to choose a genesis trait and treat it as if it's a regular trait. This can be both fun and frustrating, as all the gen traits are very, very dominant - more dominant than any of the "real" traits, so if kitty doesn't pass that gen trait, it's lost, and you end up with a normal 9T cat :-D I love the Genesis Flames - all 5 generations of them, but I've concentrated on keeping the original Gen Flame traited with current traits. I do consider these cats a full 9T for the sake of the project. Also, they have been received very well in auctions and the marketplace, so to the original question "Is this a good cat?" I'd have to say, YES! Here is one of the most recent in this ongoing project:

[Image: ffb336fda60940fc195bd28781cdb9ab.png]

[Image: ffb336fda60940fc195bd28781cdb9ab.png]

RE: What is a Good Cat? - ShannonSpoonhunter Resident - 03-15-2019 05:32 PM

This is an awesome thread.

For educational purposes, I'd like to post two results where you can see what I was going for, and that I didn't get it, but that the result was gorgeous in a different way:

Here, I was trying to shuffle some traits around on a line of solid white cats (Russian white, white whiskers, crystal clear eyes) and these guys both happened to throw their hidden fur, but keep the white eyes and whiskers, and I love it:

[Image: 328d685b49b3cdc4266ecf71ce73644d.png]

[Image: 328d685b49b3cdc4266ecf71ce73644d.png]

Here, I was trying to get huckleberry eyes on a Tiger! Huckleberry (you will note that most of my contributions to this thread will be of the matchy-matchy variety). It didn't work, but throwing the hidden flame fur AND flame whiskers, and getting the huck eyes, plus an ear that shows off the flame fur, was a really striking combination that I like but wouldn't have thought to try for on purpose.

[Image: aa8042261047775353f0796f87a6b579.png]

[Image: aa8042261047775353f0796f87a6b579.png]

RE: What is a Good Cat? - Songdog Woolley - 03-15-2019 06:21 PM

That's so cool, Shannon! Both of your unintentional results are fantastically pretty cats! It's great to see not one, but two old retired Balinese furs with those Huckleberry eyes on father and son. As new traits come out over time, the old ones get less and less common - it's a little glimpse of Kitty History to see them.

(03-15-2019 05:32 PM)ShannonSpoonhunter Resident Wrote: This is an awesome thread.

For educational purposes, I'd like to post two results where you can see what I was going for, and that I didn't get it, but that the result was gorgeous in a different way:

Here, I was trying to shuffle some traits around on a line of solid white cats (Russian white, white whiskers, crystal clear eyes) and these guys both happened to throw their hidden fur, but keep the white eyes and whiskers, and I love it:

Here, I was trying to get huckleberry eyes on a Tiger! Huckleberry (you will note that most of my contributions to this thread will be of the matchy-matchy variety). It didn't work, but throwing the hidden flame fur AND flame whiskers, and getting the huck eyes, plus an ear that shows off the flame fur, was a really striking combination that I like but wouldn't have thought to try for on purpose.

RE: What is a Good Cat? - ShannonSpoonhunter Resident - 04-14-2019 08:59 PM

Nudging this thread because I wanted to see Arwen's contributions! (And everybody else's, but Arwen mentioned having some cats to show off)

RE: What is a Good Cat? - Arwen Swordthain - 04-15-2019 10:17 AM

(04-14-2019 08:59 PM)ShannonSpoonhunter Resident Wrote: Nudging this thread because I wanted to see Arwen's contributions! (And everybody else's, but Arwen mentioned having some cats to show off)

Umm, yeah, I better get to that Big Grin

RE: What is a Good Cat? - ArikTheRed Resident - 04-19-2019 02:18 PM

For Fuzzbutt it's really quite a lot simpler than that. Fuzz just puts this forth ...

"Raise a paw if your kitty was recognized as an elder god by KittyCatS!"

(carrying on the claim that Kitten Longmeadow would not live this one down Tongue

)

RE: What is a Good Cat? - Arwen Swordthain - 04-25-2019 02:16 AM

Finally got around to unpacking those cats for photos as promised.

First up is the Quad Mysterious

Fur: Siamese - Lilac
Eyes: Azure (Shape: Mysterious | Pupil: Big)
Shade: Porcelain
Tail: Mysterious
Ears: Mysterious
Whiskers: White (Shape: Mysterious)

[Image: 359ce3bd5dc924b216dc4d3d828933b9.png]

[Image: 359ce3bd5dc924b216dc4d3d828933b9.png]

This next one is a true labour of love, the triple boo boo, this one took over a year to get all 3 together on the fur eye whisker colour combo. Personally prefer the big and natural on this so the 7 is intentional here.

Fur: Burmilla - Red Silver Shaded
Eyes: Pumpkin (Shape: Mysterious | Pupil: Big)
Shade: Natural
Tail: Boo Boo
Ears: Boo Boo
Whiskers: Butterscotch (Shape: Boo Boo)

[Image: 9cc76a12da25290ab7a433bbabdc127d.png]

[Image: 9cc76a12da25290ab7a433bbabdc127d.png]

Next we have a couture line that I love, it originated from a cat I bought at auction and shes a permapet. This Russian White has a Black mother and a blue father, lol. Mum is pictured below, shes the cat I bought. I have bred this line further but particularly love this early version with the wavy whiskers.

Fur: Russian - White
Eyes: Bronze (Shape: Mysterious | Pupil: Small)
Shade: Natural
Tail: Mysterious
Ears: Odyssey Boo Boo
Whiskers: Blonde Streaked (Shape: Wavy)

[Image: cf574e375a9307a992af39cac96bf720.png]

[Image: cf574e375a9307a992af39cac96bf720.png]

Mum

Fur: Russian - Black
Eyes: Bronze (Shape: Mysterious | Pupil: Small)
Shade: Natural
Tail: Stubby
Ears: Odyssey Boo Boo
Whiskers: Blonde Streaked (Shape: Wavy)

[Image: 8c8eb9f94845223da9e947f230f581c0.png]

[Image: 8c8eb9f94845223da9e947f230f581c0.png]

Finally couldn't find a quad Curious but did find a triple Curious.

Fur: Genesis - Flame IV
Eyes: Exotic Breeze (Shape: Mysterious | Pupil: Small)
Shade: Natural
Tail: Curious
Ears: Curious
Whiskers: 2 Tone Black & White (Shape: Curious)

[Image: 18fcd4a5c55dafc9a12e1316a8a053fa.png]

[Image: 18fcd4a5c55dafc9a12e1316a8a053fa.png]

Again the 7T was intentional to keep the Flame IV fur with natural shade. As was said before 9 doesn't always mean good Smile

At some point this line will become a 6 when I add the curious eye back in. For me that will be a finished cat, don't often hear of people wanting to reduce the trait count to finish a project Smile

I have some other projects ongoing with genesis furs at the moment that aren't ready to share yet. Genesis - Flame with Galaxy Gator eyes and aiming for Pixie Point ears with Curious whiskers, got the eyes but keep overshooting the whiskers to Odyssey FrazzyWave, the ear come later Smile

Also dug out a diamond III starter I had stashed away and am pairing her with a Toyger Snow with Marble Magic trait bomb to see what she hides, the ultimate goal there will be to have some of her hidden traits on the Diamond III fur along with the Marble Magic and Swanky lite from the puller. All Dads traits were most recessives after she was rezzed and assigned her traits, the theory is that should make it easier to keep the traits I want from her, thats the theory anyway Big Grin

Watch this space, I'll try and remember to share some pictures as I open cats to progress things Smile