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+--- Thread: Traits to Avoid?? Newbie question (/showthread.php?tid=22677)
Traits to Avoid?? Newbie question - Oselkhandro Resident - 07-09-2015 02:49 PM
I saw a post on the General Discussions berating the use of White Mysterious whiskers.
It seemed to me that the Breeding forum was a good place to post this request! As a new KittyCatS breeder, I have been working to create pretty, well traited kittens. I have not even started trying to sell kitties, because I am not satisfied yet that I am creating kittens that will add to the quality already available. 
Anyway, Ivy posted that White Mysterious whiskers are a problem. It would really help us newer folks if the more experienced breeders would post a list of the traits that YOU think should be avoided. That way, we won't flood the market with undesirable stuff that people have to work breeding out.
So, other than Genesis traits, what traits do YOU think people should avoid, and why?? Thanks in advance!
RE: Traits to Avoid?? Newbie question - Beryl Landar - 07-09-2015 03:30 PM
Yes, the white (mysterious), silver(whisker), curious(eye), big (pupil), natural (fur shade), guitar(whisker), as all these do not count as traits. in addition, I tend to try to avoid apple, rainbow prism, and azure ...however, some people I know also avoid passion (eyes).
RE: Traits to Avoid?? Newbie question - Ivy Norsk - 07-09-2015 04:49 PM
The KittyCatS breeding community is very large. Within it you will find lots of tastes and various sub-groups. So I know that some traits that I dislike are beloved by some people. The thing about breeding is to breed what You like. If you are going to sell kitties though, it helps to be aware of some of the subgroups.
Pink Chateau fur is desperately loved by some people and desperately hated by others. Just realize if you breed it that your market share is smaller.
Chateau 3-spots (1 and 2) are loved and hated by people.
Maine Coons are loved and hated by people.
Vampire cats - some people ONLY breed black cats with passion (and now onyx will be moving in) eyes and vampire ears. Many people buy them for Halloween. It's a popular niche, but a niche. Caveat - Everybody on earth loves Russian Blacks.
So I'm NOT saying don't breed these. I'm just saying be aware about your audience.
The thing about the mysterious white whiskers isn't about taste though. The overabundance is the direct result of the "game" of making 9T cats. It is systemic. White mysterious is the most dominant trait set to still get a 9T rating. Many many breeders have figured out that if you mate a 9T with a 9T you will get a 9T, and 9Ts sell best. But if you keep banging 9Ts together, the most dominant traits will win, they will always surface and the more recessive whisker shapes and colors will be lost. White mysterious is the default of the 9T game. It requires no skill in breeding; only that you purchase 9T cats for your Cattery.
RE: Traits to Avoid?? Newbie question - Oselkhandro Resident - 07-09-2015 05:18 PM
Great advice, Beryl and Ivy! Thanks! I am a fan of the Pink cats, but I try to keep them to a small percent of my cattery. Rainbow Prism eyes, which I liked at first, now seem to be so common that I had already started to avoid them, but my cattery is full of them. I got a lot of Azure eyes at first, but they are so dominant that I had started to avoid them (as well as Pink Ice)
A few days ago, I had a kitten born with Aby Ruddy and Genesis Earth..the brown on brown was so pretty! But the 9T obsession is leading me to try to change the Genesis into Mocha eyes. I must confess to going for 9T as soon as I get a nice fur/eyes combo, but I will sure be more careful from now on. I am really appreciative of all the good advice!!!
Any other traits to avoid?
RE: Traits to Avoid?? Newbie question - MsMagick Resident - 07-09-2015 07:23 PM
(07-09-2015 03:30 PM)Beryl Landar Wrote: Yes, the white (mysterious), silver(whisker), curious(eye), big (pupil), natural (fur shade), guitar(whisker), as all these do not count as traits. in addition, I tend to try to avoid apple, rainbow prism, and azure ...however, some people I know also avoid passion (eyes).
Actually white and mysterious are nothing special, but technically they do still count:
Whisker Color
Guitar is not a trait. Any other shape is a trait.
Whisker Color
Silver is not a trait. Any other color is a trait.
- See more at: http://kittycats.biz/help/article.php?id=61
But 9Ts don't automatically make a beautiful kitty, and 1Ts don't automatically make an ugly one. Some people hate most or all of the shades. Some love big eyes, especially on certain eye colors or combinations. I love certain Genesis IV furs and intentionally breed them for those who are looking for affordable pets.
Different people have different goals in breeding, as well as different aesthetic preferences. And what individuals like can also change over time - they certainly have for me!
Oselkhandro, the best advice that I've ever gotten is to breed what you like. I do that, but also do pay attention to what sells, and at what price. I'm not out to have the newest or the most uber recessive, but rather to breed kitties that I love that also sell well enough to cover my costs and have a few lindens left over for other things.
I'm still working on my breeding skills, but it doesn't stop me from selling a variety of kitties, some that I definitely want more of (but some of those are the ones that I DON'T sell :-) ) and some that didn't quite work out the way that intended. LOL!
RE: Traits to Avoid?? Newbie question - Tad Carlucci - 07-10-2015 06:08 AM
Remember, too, that, sometimes, you don't realize how good a combination looks until you accidentally produce it. The Build-a-Cat tool is great for checking out things, but it only shows what you think of, and, being online, like the Pedigree and Cattery, it does not show all traits.
RE: Traits to Avoid?? Newbie question - Devilness Chant - 07-10-2015 10:38 AM
If you're looking to make unique kitties? The best way to do that is walk the markets and see what is out there. You will see an over abundance of some traits and underabundance of others. It's also a good way to see the traits that you may be interested in.
Another good way to check out traits is in the forum showroom and the KC flicker group. We love to take pictures of our kitties! lol
If you're looking for a better way to compete in the market. I honestly don't think there is one, other than to learn every thing you can about breeding and hit a lot of auctions to become known. That just seems to be a way that I have noticed. I think there are still breeding classes? They're free and a great way to meet ppl and make new friends.
I used to try and breed to keep up with the market. Now I just breed for myself. I find this more enjoyable.
It's a large community and everyone has they're own tastes. And their tastes can change also with new traits that can pop up.
To be honest, I think I did it backwards. lol I tried to breed to the changing market trends, which can change in a day. lol I should have started out breeding for my own tastes.
As for gen traits....The curious eye is a gen trait. I love the curious eye on many kitties. To me curious give a kitty a more innocent look. Mysterious gives them more of a mischievous kitty look.
RE: Traits to Avoid?? Newbie question - AstridSolace Resident - 07-11-2015 12:24 AM
Personally I try to avoid white mysterious whiskers, frisky and mysterious tail, curious and mysterious ears. And eyes: rainbow prism (overused), ody rainbow, ody bellini, apple (pretty eye but everywhere), pink ice, passion & fire (except on black fur). Furs: no fur is really taboo for me, except maybe Foxie Salt & Pepper (due to it being absolutely everywhere). I breed for myself not what is popular right now, because that changes so fast. I will often deliberately breed for some gen traits, such as natural shade and big eyes. Also I try to avoid glitter and illume shades on white or cream cats because of the lightbulb effect, although this can be rectified by turning down your render glow settings in your browser prefs graphics options.