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+--- Thread: Hidden Traits Question (/showthread.php?tid=14593)
Hidden Traits Question - Troubadoura Resident - 03-26-2014 02:07 PM
Can starter traits be hidden as well? I have had kittens born with a starter trait that didn't show in either parent.
RE: Hidden Traits Question - Ethereal Hurricane - 03-26-2014 02:40 PM
It depends on what trait you are talking about. For furs, they can't hide in starters, but they can hide in offspring, and only if you breed 2 starters together, and are extremely unlucky.
RE: Hidden Traits Question - Troubadoura Resident - 03-27-2014 10:08 PM
(03-26-2014 02:40 PM)Ethereal Hurricane Wrote: It depends on what trait you are talking about. For furs, they can't hide in starters, but they can hide in offspring, and only if you breed 2 starters together, and are extremely unlucky.
I don't have the records in front of me, but are certain cats (not starters), that I breed and get Genesis Eyes of a different type than either of the parents show. I will look for the records and post later.
RE: Hidden Traits Question - CobwebHDC Resident - 03-28-2014 12:45 AM
(03-27-2014 10:08 PM)Troubadoura Resident Wrote:(03-26-2014 02:40 PM)Ethereal Hurricane Wrote: It depends on what trait you are talking about. For furs, they can't hide in starters, but they can hide in offspring, and only if you breed 2 starters together, and are extremely unlucky.
I don't have the records in front of me, but are certain cats (not starters), that I breed and get Genesis Eyes of a different type than either of the parents show. I will look for the records and post later.
If your parent cats have Genesis eyes, and they are not starters, then you can have hidden genesis eyes in them.
RE: Hidden Traits Question - anna Acanthus - 03-28-2014 12:54 AM
You must be meaning either genesis furs or eyes.
These have a pecking order just as the non genesis furs and eyes do so yes, it's perfectly possible to produce this result.
But of course, not with a starter pair as all starters hide a non genesis fur or eye and any kitty, genesis or not can only have one trait hidden in each category.
This result would be obtained by breeding the descendants of three or more different starters.
RE: Hidden Traits Question - Tad Carlucci - 03-28-2014 10:02 AM
The term "starter trait" generally refers to those trait values which are DOMINANT (and, usually, VISIBLE) on a Starter. Note that for Special Collection cats, when viewed in-world or on the Cattery pages and the Pedigree Roster, you see the collection's "costume". To reliably view the "starter trait" one must look on the Pedigree View (tree) pages.
A Starter is just like any other cat, except it has NO parents. This means the genetic payload must be determined completely randomly. For all cats, this process occurs at the time the BOX first appears in-world or in the Cattery. This is important because most Starters are shipped in a delivery package. The genetics are NOT determined until you "unpack" and remove the BOX from the delivery package.
The first difference about Starters is, for some traits, the DOMINANT is taken from a very limited set of trait values. For fur and eye color, these are the "Genesis" family. The remaining trait values will be Curious/Big eyes, Natural shade, Genesis ears and tail, and Silver/Guitar whiskers.
Another thing is, for some traits, the "starter trait" can NEVER be hidden (RECESSIVE). Fur and eye color cannot hide any "Genesis" family trait value; ears and tail cannot hide Genesis, and whiskers cannot hide Silver/Guitar.
So, the first answer to the OP is: yes, for Eye Shape, Pupil and Shade, even on a Starter, a "starter trait" can be both visible (DOMINANT) and hidden (RECESSIVE).
Start cats breed just like any other cat, using the normal rules.
So, the second answer to the OP is: for any offspring, INCLUDING IMMEDIATE OFFSPRING OF A PAIR OF STARTERS, yes, it is possible, for any trait to carry a hidden "starter trait".
Consider the example where we have to Staters:
Mom: Genesis Diamond III, Genesis Sunshine (Curious/Big), Natural, Genesis, Genesis, Silver(Guitar)
and
Dad: Genesis Flame III, Genesis Earth, Genesis Water, Natural, Genesis, Genesis, Silver(Guitar)
could produce the box:
Fur: Genesis Diamond III hiding Genesis Flame III
Eyes: Genesis Earth hiding Genesis Sunshine
Eye Shape: Curious hiding Curious
Pupil: Big hiding Big
Shade: Natural hiding Natural
Ears: Genesis hiding Genesis
Tail: Genesis hiding Genesis
Whiskers: Silver hiding Silver
Whisker Shape: Guitar hiding Guitar
The odds of this occurring are long (1 in 262144) but it IS possible for a pair of Starters to produce a "pure starter trait" cat.
In conclusion, while I've not done the math, my strong feeling is, for any given box produced by any given pair of starters, it is not just possible, but LIKELY (that is, better than a 1-in-2 chance) that AT LEAST ONE of the traits both shows and hides a "starter trait".