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+--- Thread: Technical Breeding Tips and Advice (/showthread.php?tid=5162)
RE: Breeders Tips Tricks and Advice - Bea Shamrock - 09-16-2012 06:08 PM
(09-16-2012 02:26 AM)Tad Carlucci Wrote: That's a good graphic. The top half shows one way to think if it, by following the lines. The bottom half shows the chart. Either works.
I can never remember the name Geneticists use for it because I'm a mathematician and an information scientists .. to us, that chart is a very simple case of a much larger one we call by a different name. I won't bother you with it because if you look it up it'll probably give you a headache
I'm willing to risk a headache...curious former language teacher turned chemistry student here
I won't be able to aprehend it in its entirety but now I'm curious 
Thanks for your comments on the graphic
RE: Breeders Tips Tricks and Advice - Mellyn Llewellyn - 09-16-2012 07:38 PM
The best tip I ever got I read here on the forums, and I think it might have been Tad's but no longer remember.
It was to pair two kitties whose traits you want to blend and wait for two siblings, one of each sex, before opening the boxes, then pair the siblings, rather than opening boxes right away and pairing offspring to parent. I've gotten faster results with lower food costs by doing this. The 2nd generation siblings won't be great kitties -- it's the 3rd generation that can be stellar.
Patience is helpful - it seems like the first gen 3 box or two never is what you want, but given some patience, the good kitties do come. I've gone from 4-5T kitties to well traited 9T in 3 generations a number of times.
RE: Breeders Tips Tricks and Advice - Tad Carlucci - 09-16-2012 08:15 PM
Here's one. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karnaugh_map
We use it a lot in computer chip design to reduce things.
Scroll to the bottom if you want to see a mathematicians view of how KittyCats genetics works .. all the possible forms are down there.
I used a (rather huge) Karnaugh map to develop the inference rules for allowing e-mail servers to detect and shut down spammers based on the traffic patterns, rather than the content of the messages. A colleague uses them on-the-fly to detect and eliminate e-mail spam based upon words appearing in the content. We used to do them by hand, but computers make them a LOT easier to work with.
I warned you!
RE: Breeders Tips Tricks and Advice - Sara Franco - 09-16-2012 08:28 PM
(09-16-2012 08:15 PM)Tad Carlucci Wrote: Here's one. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karnaugh_map
We use it a lot in computer chip design to reduce things.
Scroll to the bottom if you want to see a mathematicians view of how KittyCats genetics works .. all the possible forms are down there.
aww such memories
, used to study these stuff at college (Computer Engineering) but my bad memory doesn't keep what I don't use 
because I work in the Software Development field now and didn't use all what I studied . *feels sad* loved these Logic Design stuff.Have to say that plus the cuteness of course that's the thing that got me hooked with KittyCats fast, the LOGIC part.
I loved how you derive the output you get (Visible and Hidden traits) from the inputs in a logical systematical way.
I spent my first days after reading Saga's documents drawing charts and doing equations to learn myself all the output possibilities of different breeding inputs taking into consideration the dominance order, was thrilling and such FUN.
So Thanks to the KC makers and coders for giving us an extra way of having fun with our cats, not sure what others think but I find Logic thrilling
.
RE: Breeders Tips Tricks and Advice - Kayleigh McMillan - 09-16-2012 09:46 PM
I agree the cats are cute but the logic behind the genes is fascinating!
I love the KittyCatS genes puzzle
RE: Breeders Tips Tricks and Advice - Sara Franco - 09-16-2012 09:49 PM
(09-16-2012 09:46 PM)Kayleigh McMillan Wrote: I agree the cats are cute but the logic behind the genes is fascinating!
I love the KittyCatS genes puzzle
I do too
RE: Breeders Tips Tricks and Advice - Bea Shamrock - 09-17-2012 01:21 AM
(09-16-2012 08:15 PM)Tad Carlucci Wrote: Here's one. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karnaugh_map
We use it a lot in computer chip design to reduce things.
Scroll to the bottom if you want to see a mathematicians view of how KittyCats genetics works .. all the possible forms are down there.
I used a (rather huge) Karnaugh map to develop the inference rules for allowing e-mail servers to detect and shut down spammers based on the traffic patterns, rather than the content of the messages. A colleague uses them on-the-fly to detect and eliminate e-mail spam based upon words appearing in the content. We used to do them by hand, but computers make them a LOT easier to work with.
I warned you!
Thank you!!!!!
I know it'll take me some time to understand even a little bit but at least I already know what the sigma does! EAP: for typos
Reading random auction/bidboard comments I came across this one.... And it reminded me of this thread. And I was wondering how others feel about the use of
"would" here.
My pedigree reading: if I'm shown Dad's pedigree and I see him showing or hiding twinkle, I accept the claim that the baby is hiding twinkle. Now from this pedigree, I can only really say the same thing as is said about mysterious eye shape (as grandma's pedigree on one side was provided) but not so sure as to how the other traits are presented. And I mean "presented", not saying they can't be indeed there. I see no indication of any other fur or eye having passed, and the same with ears and tail.
*Disclaimer* I come from discourse analysis world. That's why I prefer percentages and odds in pedigree comments. "would" is vague to me, deliberately or not. But I'm interested in learning how others interpret this.
Fur: Bengal - Sorell
Eyes: Odyssey Terra (Shape: Curious | Pupil: Small)
Shade: Illume
Tail: Genesis
Ears: Genesis
Whiskers: Blonde Streaked (Shape: Plush)
Size: Normal
??????????????????????
MUM
Fur: Bengal - Sorell
Eyes: Odyssey Terra (Shape: Curious | Pupil: Big)
Shade: Illume
Tail: Genesis
Ears: Genesis
Whiskers: Blonde Streaked (Shape: Plush)
DAD
Fur: Bengal - Sorell
Eyes: Odyssey Terra (Shape: Curious | Pupil: Big)
Shade: Natural
Tail: Genesis
Ears: Genesis
Whiskers: Blonde Streaked (Shape: Plush)
**Comment: This kitten is hiding TWINKLE shade, There is also mysterious eye shape far back in pedigree. Hidden fur would be American Shorthair Blue & White Tabby. Hidden eye would be Gerbera Purple. Hidden ear and tail would be mysterious. (Others of this line show those traits.)
RE: Breeders Tips Tricks and Advice - Kayleigh McMillan - 09-17-2012 08:54 AM
I thought of a perhaps obvious tip for most but perhaps worth to mention
Pairing two 9 traiters together always gives 9 traiter kitties and these are very valuable also to use with starters just so you know your kitty to be is packed with your favorite traits eventhough they might not be visable yet.
I strongly believe it is worth every penny to invest in 9 traiters with ones favorite traits as a new breeder to get started.
Often lovely 9 traiter kitties can be found at auctions and while auctions are not really an indication as for the value of a specific cat as it highly depends on the audience it is very entertaining to join them.
Auctions are a lovely way to meet the community and see vibrant bid wars.
RE: Breeders Tips Tricks and Advice - Tad Carlucci - 09-17-2012 10:34 AM
I'm gonna divert a bit from actual tips to traps you should, at least, be aware of.
The mention of "mysterious eyes far in the background" brings to mind a concept from Genetics. Here's the Wikiepedia page for it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_drift
Genetic Drift seems a contentious issue in real-world genetics because, for most large populations, it arises from your statistical methods and is not a "true genetic" operation.
In a nutshell: genetic drift is the tendency of a given trait value to either entirely disappear from your population, or become spread throughout your entire population. It effects ONLY those trait values which have no effect upon fitness to survive and reproduce.
But, in breedables, such as KittyCatS, Genetic Drift is a very real effect: and it's caused by YOU! There is nothing anywhere in any breedable's programming which implements Genetic Drift; but all will exhibit it.
So why does Mysterious Eye Shape bring it to mind? Well, quite simply because, while two-value traits such as Mysterious Eye Shape and Small Pupil are easy to obtain, the fact that there are only two values actually makes them the most likely to be lost.
So, OK, I'll turn this into a tip ...
Even if some traits or trait values are not important to you, today, PAY ATTENTION TO ALL OF THEM, ANYWAY.
Sure, you're madly rushing to get that Seal Lynx. And, yeah, you're planning on adding Peach Belinni Eyes to it .. later. But some day you'll want to have perfect eyes. So, if you were not watching ALL traits, in ALL lines, you can find, when you finally decide to look, that you don't have ANY cats carrying Mysterious Eye Shape, or Small Pupil.
Didn't I mention keeping a "seed bank", earlier?
This effect is why I actually LIKE that the KittyCatS team has never added a third value to those two traits. It's a hidden trap for the unwary!
When counting traits ..
There are 18, not 9!
You see a 9-trait cat. I see 9-Shown, 9-Hidden: total 18. Actually, I count fewer if I'm sure that a hidden is the same as the shown! So the best I actually count for a 9-trait will be 16 because I'm quite positive that perfect eyes always hide perfect eyes. Yes, that means a Twinkle will count less than an Illume hiding Twinkle! But that's A Good Thing if I'm interested in exposing Twinkle.
Often times, when trying to decide which mate is "best" it can help to count not just the shown traits, but the additional, hidden, ones you can prove are laying behind those shown "generic" values you're not counting.
RE: Breeders Tips Tricks and Advice - Tad Carlucci - 09-17-2012 04:51 PM
This isn't a "breeding tip" but it's a tip all breeders SHOULD know. I'm sure, by know, you all know I LOVE the Cattery. This just came up in another thread, so I'll be brief:
You can use the Cattery and the Dock to correct many causes of failure and avoid having to await a CSR's response to a ticket.
If you have a cat or box showing some odd behavior, and you can still send it into the Cattery, do so.
When you bring the cat back in-world using the Dock, it's a completely fresh version of the cat created from the Dock's internal "generic" template. Crashed scripts are restarted. Missing internal parts are replaced.
I recommend filing tickets anyway .. just make it clear how you fixed the problem. They can't fix problems if they're never told about them!