+- KittyCatS! Community Forum (https://kittycats.ws/forum)
+-- Forum: KittyCatS Forum (/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: Cat Chat - General Discussions about KittyCatS (/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+--- Thread: New Releases Hurting the Breeders (/showthread.php?tid=6337)
RE: New Releases Hurting the Breeders - Bea Shamrock - 12-03-2012 08:16 PM
I agree with many of the things that have been said... I'll try to summarize the points I agree with and add my own views as well (I apologize in advance for the length of the post and the personal history in it).
* I like kitties. The reason I have land is so that my kitties can roam and we can play. Their range is "in parcel" and they have all features enabled. I've had my original pet family for over a year and they're here to stay. Actually (connecting with two "hot" topics right now), I'd never intended to breed at all. I bought the couple starter pack and two permapet bottles at the same time, not knowing I had to wait at least a week to be able to use it. By the end of the week I wanted more kitties. Someone really nice gave me one of her retired kitties and I used the permapet bottle on that kitty, while my babies gained love. They had 3 babies and 2 grandbabies, a son in law and a daughter in law. My family
* With the advent of the online cattery I was able to expand my cattery and breed, so that now my breeders are in the online cattery for the most part and retired/permapet and baby kitties are inworld. My cattery got to be huge, and I've been trying to reduce it by not birthing or buying new kitties until many of mine have retired.
* That meant I got to birth one Baroque kitty and two Halloween kitties only, none of whom have shown new traits so far. They have shown **nice** traits, however, and I intend to breed them till their last possible baby. I may have new traits hiding in boxed Baroque and Halloween kitties (I only got the Mummy Mia collection and a Till Death do us Part couple), who knows. I'm still working on traiting up and pullling the wavy whiskers one of my Steampunk kitties hid. And traiting up kitties with fruit eyes, as the ones I was able to found when I first started breeding usually had only the eyes as shown trait, and in many cases hid genesis traits as well, being the product of two leopards/love letters bred together.
* I've also bought kitties with some recent new traits like Jade and Ody K, found out one of my kitties hid Ody Bellini, and I have a few new furs I bought as well. All are projects at the moment.
* The deluge of new traits over the two past collections overwhelmed me. Some I like, some not so much. (one i really like but don't like the name much.....
). But like it or not, they inevitably become the topic of most conversations and the subject of most auctions (not of all). When I started going to auctions, I was overwhelmed by balis; now it's balis and new traits -and many of the kitties showing new traits haven't been bred for potential even. It seemed a matter of discovering the trait only, then selling the kitty.I've stopped paying through my nose for very low potential kitties being priced solely by their fashionable new trait. So I wait. And in time, or from time to time before that, someone prices the kitty with the new trait reasonably or they breed it with enough potential or even both. But I had to learn that.
So I'm not completely sure a lot of new traits released very closely together is so good when thinking of new breeders. It's dazzling, sure, but what happens when those new breeders don't have starter kitties carrying the new traits and are not experienced enough to breed out the traits the way they'd like from other people's kitties?
* About large collections: I feel there's a nice feeling, maybe a sense of accomplishment or something, in having a complete collection and being able to enjoy the kitties that make it up. I understand that creators try to cater for all in matters of taste, but perhaps it's not necessary to do so in the same collection.
* About the release of new traits: maybe it's not necessary to release a limited edition collection for all new traits; the eyes in the Seasons of Hope kitties were carried by non LE starters later as well, so perhaps there could be a mix of LE and non-LE new traits released in regular starters? Maybe announce the release of X number of new eyes etc (as has been done sometime in the past) in starters and let breeders buy regular starters when they can without spending a lot at once on a large collection for a better chance and to have a complete collection? That would also give breeders more time to breed their new traits the way they want before they feel they have to put them in the market to beat the competition or the drop in prices.
I hope the way I've written this makes sense, and it doesn't offend or upset anyone, as the latter is certainly not my intention at all.
RE: New Releases Hurting the Breeders - Kayleigh McMillan - 12-03-2012 09:11 PM
Just a thought
Maybe we should just stop trying to keep up with all the new traits and specials and just continue our valued and beloved projects as if nothing happened.
Because indeed this can be a wild ride if we engage it too much.
I for one like to pay my money for kitties with not perse the newest traits but the trait combinations I can use in my projects.
The speed in which things are released made me reconsider how I like to breed and how I like to spend my money.
As much as I love new traits to enrich our possibilities I will not hunt the grid down to find every single one of them.
I for sure like to honor the hard work of the breeder who worked tiredless on a project which I happen to love.
And as Bea said also the kitty with poor potential but with a hot and happening trait I don't give a second look if the price tag is too high or when it is bred with a highly recessive why that trait is hard to preserve and a pain in the b*tt in the future.
But as long as there are buyers of such kitties we will remain to see them.
This also brings me to my earlier statement I think we as a community make the market.
So I think we get the market we deserve in a way
P.S. can you imagine Double Dip Flora on a Red Tabby? *melts*
RE: New Releases Hurting the Breeders - Dario Maesar - 12-04-2012 03:06 AM
(12-03-2012 09:11 PM)Kayleigh McMillan Wrote: Just a thought
Maybe we should just stop trying to keep up with all the new traits and specials and just continue our valued and beloved projects as if nothing happened.
Because indeed this can be a wild ride if we engage it too much.
I for one like to pay my money for kitties with not perse the newest traits but the trait combinations I can use in my projects.
The speed in which things are released made me reconsider how I like to breed and how I like to spend my money.
As much as I love new traits to enrich our possibilities I will not hunt the grid down to find every single one of them.
I for sure like to honor the hard work of the breeder who worked tiredless on a project which I happen to love.
And as Bea said also the kitty with poor potential but with a hot and happening trait I don't give a second look if the price tag is too high or when it is bred with a highly recessive why that trait is hard to preserve and a pain in the b*tt in the future.
But as long as there are buyers of such kitties we will remain to see them.
This also brings me to my earlier statement I think we as a community make the market.
So I think we get the market we deserve in a way
P.S. can you imagine Double Dip Flora on a Red Tabby? *melts*
I stopped hunting the new traits already... here and there I sometimes buy in a new trait because I can see it fit and enhance my breedings or a new fur when I really like it, but I am not a breeder that specifically breeds just the new stuff. I leave that also to others. I want to do magic on elder furs with the given traits.
My Russian Black Porcelain Passion project just got an enhancement as I decided to breed Vampire ears in it... I can also imagin your new Red Tabbys with Double Dip Flora... If they had a shade in it, you'd have me as your customer on them definately <3 I want to see more people like this
I'd know where to get my loved furs instead of needing to post and wait ages for reply from the Wanted forum sometimes
RE: New Releases Hurting the Breeders - Kayleigh McMillan - 12-04-2012 08:16 AM
(12-04-2012 03:06 AM)Dario Maesar Wrote: I stopped hunting the new traits already... here and there I sometimes buy in a new trait because I can see it fit and enhance my breedings or a new fur when I really like it, but I am not a breeder that specifically breeds just the new stuff. I leave that also to others. I want to do magic on elder furs with the given traits.
I want to see more people like this
I have a pure Red Tabby 9T so that's a nice start with very dominant eyes also.
The only thing I need now is Double Dip Flora preferable from a starter which I can put behind the gold eyes the Tabby has.
And I hope if I can obtain such starter somewhere the starter gives me a genesis fur but an eye trait
I can't wait to make this Red Tabby!
RE: New Releases Hurting the Breeders - Serena Stroikavskoi - 12-04-2012 09:03 AM
(12-03-2012 08:16 PM)Bea Shamrock Wrote: I've stopped paying through my nose for very low potential kitties being priced solely by their fashionable new trait. So I wait.
And in time, or from time to time before that, someone prices the kitty with the new trait reasonably or they breed it with enough
potential or even both. But I had to learn that.
* About the release of new traits: maybe it's not necessary to release a limited edition collection for all new traits; the eyes in the Seasons of Hope kitties were carried by non LE starters later as well, so perhaps there could be a mix of LE and non-LE new traits released in regular starters?
I hope the way I've written this makes sense, and it doesn't offend or upset anyone, as the latter is certainly not my intention at all.
Bea you make perfect sense. I agree, I didn't intend to breed any of the first kittys I got, they where just to cute and I
do it for fun now. All the new stuff, between the traits (furs, eyes, ears, tails, etc are quite dazzling. More new stuff has been released in the past 2 months
than has been retired in the past year. So I completely agree with the LE stuff (like vampire ears only to be available on Halloween KittyCatS) or to maybe retire something when something new is released. Then it would make something already out there more precious.
(12-04-2012 08:16 AM)Kayleigh McMillan Wrote:(12-04-2012 03:06 AM)Dario Maesar Wrote: I stopped hunting the new traits already... here and there I sometimes buy in a new trait because I can see it fit and enhance my breedings or a new fur when I really like it, but I am not a breeder that specifically breeds just the new stuff. I leave that also to others. I want to do magic on elder furs with the given traits.
I want to see more people like this
I have a pure Red Tabby 9T so that's a nice start with very dominant eyes also.
The only thing I need now is Double Dip Flora preferable from a starter which I can put behind the gold eyes the Tabby has.
And I hope if I can obtain such starter somewhere the starter gives me a genesis fur but an eye trait
I can't wait to make this Red Tabby!
I bought my first kitty in July 2011 and got hooked. No intention of actively breeding, just wanted a couple of kitties for the house. So I joined
the group, and the community we have made me want to join in the breeding. Every one is so friendly. It made me want to stay. So I actively started
breeding and now usually only breed for what I want, and to see what I can pull. To me it is about what goes with what and what I like. Now I too look at what is traited and that I 'know' is hiding on buying on the market. I get and feel a sense of accomplishment when I get what I set out to get. It's a nice feeling to achieve a goal. It goes hand in hand with experience. So when I see traits for a lot I just put it on my wish list and move on. Like Bea if it's something I really want then that is the only time you'll see me pay for it. Which right now happens to be putting the Double Dip Flora (which is why I'm even answering this, I seen the mention of it) on my Bengal Tawny's. Anyway new breeders coming into this right now will get frustrated, especially if they start purchasing at high prices and then realize they have to breed them out, which takes time, kibble, and patience. Okay, I've had my little rant and going back to my corner now. I just wanted to put my pennys in, cause I really think 2 minds are better than 1 any day of the week. And more the merrier!
Side Note: I also pair a lot of my 'favorites' to the starters for a couple a kitten boxes to hord away to keep those furs and/or traits.
RE: New Releases Hurting the Breeders - bigbritchz Topaz - 12-04-2012 11:23 PM
Yes Tad they do have June and July releases. they have a new release it seems around every important USA holiday or international event. which is almost every other month or every two months . if a cat isn't made its produced by current cats that we seem to pull out en mass just for the occasion. which is irritating because it feels like a new shiny toy comes out before i get to break the wheels or the legs off the toy i just got. and the majority of us who is honest with ourselves have the "Jones" complex. i fight it all the time i am a breeder not a saler. and have gotten so tired of fighting. i have given up not on my kitty cats but buying them why should i spend hundreds of my dollars on something that will not have any really economical value next month. who wants to spend 80-100 dollars on a pretend kitty for nothing. i mean we are already wasting and throwing away our money on what is equivalent to nothing in rw. and now the collectable standing is taken away here. so really the real question is whats the point? why are ppl spending 100's of dollars on cats with one trait or two traits to there name and then next week the cat goes for 1k when i first started there was rules to selling at auctions no cats that did not have an average of 6 traits. you where ran down and fussed at by the best of them. hahahahaha trust me !! for breaking the rule. why isnt it a fact for every sim there has to be a trait limit with the newer traited kitties that way atleast some of older newer traited kitties have more time to shine. before ppl start putting them on the self.
RE: New Releases Hurting the Breeders - Callie Cline - 12-04-2012 11:52 PM
hi all,
i wanted to just give a little input from my experience. i am speaking as a community member, not for the KittyCatS! company per se.
i am blown away personally by the amazing, unsurpassed creativity our community shows. from the cute auction set ups, to some of the catteries i've seen, to the elaborate auction houses, the sims, the photos you share, how you dress your cats, the lists, the documents!!! what really impresses me is the dedication and passion you have for making your ideal cat from the palette of traits we give you and your interaction with each other to help others achieve their goals. it really blows me away to see some of the combinations i never dreamed possible.
i know as a team we have spoken about our amazing community and how awesome you are. we do feel so so lucky to have such a diverse and cool group. from people who are very technically minded, to those who are serious hard core breeders, to those who just have one pet, all of you are really important to the whole of this community.
each thing we do we think of how we can make your experience better, we are mindful of the secondary market that comes with having a 'pet that can breed', and try our best to serve our entire customer base, from the breeding enthusiasts, to the casual pet owner. it can be challenging at times as there are so many different wants and goals people have. it can be a fine line to walk and we try to walk it straight and steady.
thank you for sharing all your input on this thread and all the threads where you share things. we know it comes from your passion and caring. it means a lot. i'm guessing it's not always easy to share stuff and we do appreciate it.
in closing, i usually tell new ppl, whatever you do, just have fun. enjoy it. there are endless possibilities for fun, creativity, community, and you all are the best group i've ever been a part of in SL.
warmly,
callie
RE: New Releases Hurting the Breeders - neckcadaver Resident - 12-05-2012 12:11 PM
**well I tried to keep up with all that writing there my brain just cannot lol** anyhow I started KC for my therapy after sustaining a TBI. all I can say is thanks so much for helping my cognitvies! I love kitties, and the breeding process and the creative flow it brings. from foxie fettish to moo kitty to my fav ruddy. from colors and what is hiding under that hood.
anyhow lets all have fun, these kitties crack me up and when i find myself laughing I find the answer as to another reason why I am doing this.
number one is my noggin.... therapy
anyhow I am having a blast and continue to do so even with the alts, the drama and so forth. once you cut out that bs and focus on yourself and what you love---it is smooth sailing
cheers
have a happy
neck
RE: New Releases Hurting the Breeders - Nocshadue Balbozar - 12-06-2012 05:14 PM
(12-03-2012 08:25 AM)Giuliana Verrazzano Wrote: Seasons of Hope 2011 (RFL) carried the Gerbera Eyes which were 4 and are not available through starters (but I think there are so many still available in the secondary market that it feels like they are)
The Gerbera eyes and Porcelain shade came from the Lazy Daisies. The Eyes in the 2011 RFL were Changing Leaf, Beach Blue, Ice Crystal and Morning Dew. I am thinking it was about a month or so after the release of RFL that I found the Ody Sublime eyes, but am not sure if their release into the gene pool was with the RFLs or not. And there was a twist wtih the 2011 RFLs that the traits introduced in them were not released in the regular staters until several weeks later. There were also several new furs introduced with the RFL that year.
RE: New Releases Hurting the Breeders - Bea Shamrock - 12-06-2012 11:41 PM
I interpreted Giulia's statement as a successful example of a situation with a collection with LE eyes, not an attempt at accurate KC historical recording (there's another thread for that and we all have mind-slips, especially when we're trying to get some other point across...).
I sense you're trying to get a point across Noc (other than to correct Giulia), but I'm afraid I can't see it. Maybe you could elaborate on it please?