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+--- Thread: Too Confused! About the Special Kitties breeding rules (/showthread.php?tid=3233)
RE: Too Confused! About the Special Kitties breeding rules - KittyCatS - 03-29-2012 09:58 PM
hi Tad & Saga
I dont think the additional info would have made much of a difference for nearly anyone.
We did offer the ability to get a chance of having a less recessive trait beeing replaced by a more recessive one.
This means it would only be skipped if your originals cats genes would be even more recessive.
Since you dont know the ranking of the clover eyes, its hard to say anything about that before the event started.
A quick check shows me that Tad's wife did have a clover cat at the first breeding day though.
Additionally, she got 2 more at alts.
Saga got a box too, as well on the first day.
Once you had one, you couldn't get a second anymore.
However, as mentioned before , you can fill a ticket with all the details, and we will do our best to correct your situation individually.
Regards
KittyCatS
RE: Too Confused! About the Special Kitties breeding rules - Tad Carlucci - 03-30-2012 04:52 AM
I don't think you understand so I'll "file my ticket here" and maybe you'll get where you cheated us ...
Charm's stock has a number of highly recessive eyes. As a result, that Clover she got on Day 1 may have been forced to appear some hours after it should have.
Once Charm obtained her Clover, all remaining stock was passed to our first ALT, who waited quite a while for her Clover to appear. This could have been a result of the filtering effect from Charm's effort resulting in the ALT getting more recessive eyes waiting to produce.
Late on Day Three, the first ALT finally received her Clover and the remaining stock was passed to a third ALT. Due to the lack of recessive eyes being bred, that ALT received her Clover within a few hours.
With just hours to go, our remaining stock was passed to a fourth ALT (ME!) but, due to only 3 pairs remaining, I was unable to receiver my Clover.
I had two more ALTs waiting to step in when the lottery ended.
Due to your systemic cheating, I and my ALTs were potentially denied our chances at a Clover because the previous ALTs were forced to wait longer than they should have for their Clovers to appear.
Since you indicate a willingness to correct this, please confirm that if we file a ticket you will provide us with the THREE(3) Clovers we were cheated out of.
RE: Too Confused! About the Special Kitties breeding rules - Charmayne Brentley - 03-30-2012 05:43 AM
Just to clear things up, I do not feel "cheated". I do not think Kittycats would purposely cheat their good supportive customers like that, I have more respect and confidence in them. I do however, wish that it did not seem as though things are somewhat biased towards new players and again, I do not feel it is intentional. Personally I feel lucky to have been able to acquire three Lucky Clovers because lots of times I do not get anything at all. It is just that I am an unlucky random player and I accept that. it's why I do not gamble LOL. So, no, I will not file a ticket. That would be silly. I actually thought it was quite a bit of fun (the whole St. Patrick's Day Clover Eye thing), except for the last tense few hours...we were exhausted.
RE: Too Confused! About the Special Kitties breeding rules - Tad Carlucci - 03-30-2012 06:03 AM
On a completely different note: I do wish site administrators would pay more attention to privacy. If Charm and I had wanted the ALTs exposed and the fact we received 3 Clovers published, we'd have done so. Private messages are there so that such facts, if they are important to the point at hand (which I doubt is the case here), can be discussed privately prior to public disclosure.
RE: Too Confused! About the Special Kitties breeding rules - anna Acanthus - 03-30-2012 09:34 AM
Well heck, i woke up on the third day and thought hey maybe i sneak a few to my alt i can get a boy for my girl, but drew a blank. I've always felt it was half cheating myself to use an alt for one-offs, or getting a friend or 2 to get me a transferable special.
Were we guaranteed to all get at a Clover eye ?
If so me wants anuvva too pleeze for my alt who is still sulking
RE: Too Confused! About the Special Kitties breeding rules - Tad Carlucci - 03-30-2012 09:47 AM
The only difference between an ALT and another player is the human at the keyboard. It's not possible to detect ALTs unless you are KittyCatS resident and can see that not only was the stock transferred, but the accounts on the web server logged in from the same IP address .. and even then you'd get a false-positive because Tad and his ALTs are not Charm's ALTs and hers are not mine (Tad is MY alt, my primary rarely logs in any more), but I use IP-address mapping on my router so, as far as LL, KR or anyone else can tell, all our computers have the same IP address and that is actually my boarder-router/firewall.
RE: Too Confused! About the Special Kitties breeding rules - Saga Felix - 03-30-2012 11:24 AM
(03-29-2012 09:58 PM)KittyCatS Wrote: However, as mentioned before , you can fill a ticket with all the details, and we will do our best to correct your situation individually.
Thanks, KittyCatS - but I do not wish to get rid of the only clover-cat I have, of course! :O
I like the clover eyes, I am happy about my clover-eyed kitty, and hope to breed the eyes out - but that doesn't change that I feel slightly fooled because I put quite a bit of wasted effort into trying to breed ANOTHER clover cat with my "nicer" cats, as mentioned - and yes, that was by using alts, an idea hastily picked up after people started posting their numerous clovers
-Since you posted when and how both I, Tad's wife AND Tad's wife's alts had clover-cats, you can probably also see how many more kittens I had via alts during that weekend (I didn't count myself, but I guess around 15?), and how many of those actually had NO chance at all of breeding clover, since they show Odyssey Rainbow. I believe more or less all my Odyssey Rainbow Kitties bred during that time, and at first, I was rather puzzled that I (as Saga) had a clover-cat in first try, while my alts just couldn't get one, no matter how I tried. Later, I began suspecting what has now been confirmed - that many of these cats actually stood no chance at all, due to their recessive eyes. I even talked to a friend I trust about this suspicion - but did not mention it in public at all, as perhaps some would take a slight suspicion from me a bit too seriously...
I understand why you made it work like you did - it would have made no sense at all if Clover is dominant to Odyssey Rainbow, and yet could be the hidden trait in a Odyssey Rainbow kitty... But what I am saying is that this method of introducing a new eye might not be the best. You did not make equal chances for all - you favoured those that breed dominant eye traits, and let some people re-arrange and delay breeding in their very best cats for absolutely nothing... They had no chance, they just didn't know it, and all their effort was for nothing.
This idea was interesting (and it made for some interesting workarounds in breeding and use of friends, alts etc., lol!) but considering that without our knowledge, some cats simply had no chance to begin with, I would not recommend doing it exactly this way again. -And I am saying this while I STILL very much appreciate that you didn't overrule common sense and normal genetics... I hope it makes sense ;-)
I am trying to think of a way it could work better, without anyone feeling cheated of their chances to breed out whatever lucky trait you wish to introduce in the future... But I can't see any better way actually, unless introducing what Tad called a "True Recessive" this way... But that would create a whole new bunch of problems, I guess. Maybe the old idea of not messing with existing cats' genetics was not that bad, after all ;-)
Saga
RE: Too Confused! About the Special Kitties breeding rules - KittyCatS - 03-30-2012 12:16 PM
hi Saga
I understand what you are saying. However, the experience of certain eyes beeing more recessive then the clovers was ofcourse not available before the event started, and you could only have drawn this conclusion by trying.
There was afterall no guarentee either that a more dominant one would give a clover.
We should have better clarified the event as "the ability to have a more dominant gene replaced with a more recessive one". That way we still do not revail a lot about the ranking, but it would express the situation more accurate.
Also, some have expressed concerns during the "mardi grass" cats that their "special" genes would be overriden by the costume - extrapolating to this case, as an actual mutation of real genes occured, it could even happen without them knowing really, as they maybe didnt discover the hidden "special" eye yet -, another reason why we implemented it the way it was done for the lower end of the ranking list.
As you see, we dont take our descisions lightly. But we have learned something more again, and, while we may not always be able to do what you want us to do, we concider and do not forget all comments.
Regards
KittyCatS
RE: Too Confused! About the Special Kitties breeding rules - Tad Carlucci - 03-30-2012 01:45 PM
A better explanation would not have had to reveal details. But it would have allowed us know that the event was bias, rather than finding out after the fact. That knowledge would have strongly effected our breeding choices during the lottery. Of course, as always, choosing wisely or unwisely is up to the player.
I do disagree with Saga that hiding a more dominant in the normally-more-recessive location would have created a situation any different than with Starters. Yes, with Starters, we don't know the recessive and it's guaranteed to be non-Genesis and therefore actually more recessive. But our normal Starter discovery testing would work just as well. As it stands, those of us looking to determine the place for Clover in the hierarchy actually have an easier time because we don't need to breed them at all to bracket the location fairly accurately.
I loved the contest and don't regret the effort at all.
But, in future, I'd suggest working harder to avoid bias in your lotteries.
Making Clover the new True Recessive would have worked, but is probably not a good idea because it's too easy to determine it's place.
So, instead of your process, I'd suggest the following:
if (looseCloverLottery) proceed as normal; otherwise ...
1) temporarily replace any eye alleles in the parents which are recessive to Clover with the parent's dominant allele. use the normal function to produce the offspring's genes
2) set the recessive allele to Clover
3) apply Clover paint
4) deliver offspring
In all cases, save one, this satisfies four requirements:
a) All offspring produced have an equal chance at winning the Clover eye
b) All offspring have genetics which are consistent with all known rules
c) While the result was obtained using slightly different logic, the player MIGHT have received different genes if no lottery were in place BUT the player cannot PROVE any modification of the process other than the expected result of Clover randomly appearing.
d) the offspring breed future offspring using the normal rules.
In that one case, where both parents dominant eye allele is recessive to Clover, requirement b is not met. The consequence is that the "hidden" allele is actually dominant to the "visible". To me, the answer to questions about the apparent inconsistency on the web site is: "So?" It's just a seeming inconsistency in the data presentation on the web site. The genetics still work. Clover is still dominant. Those few lucky winners who happened to be breeding the most recessive eyes still get their Clover. And normal breeding patterns (if used) should quickly solve any apparent inconsistencies.
Biasing the lottery against many, to avoid the few falling into this last case who might be confused by the seeming inconsistency in the Pedigree web site, makes no sense to me.
RE: Too Confused! About the Special Kitties breeding rules - Kayleigh McMillan - 03-31-2012 12:00 PM
Maybe nice to know since ithe fact the emerald eyes couldn't stick to ody rainbow they were able to stick on the kitten of two parents with rainbow prism eyes as I received one.
I know sort of off topic:-)