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+--- Thread: Develop a new, FREE use, Kittycats' Profiler and Market pages (/showthread.php?tid=28153)
RE: Develop a new, FREE use, Kittycats' Profiler and Market pages - Kurz Neox - 01-18-2017 04:40 PM
(01-18-2017 12:24 PM)JenniferShelby Resident Wrote: As you can see nothing is really free there someone paying for everything! Before anyone says will others have free web markets and profilers. Thats true there also half as advanced as KC having to relay on huds to interact with the pets "Shivers" while kc are completely autonomous with out the hud and are far more interactive. Its like comparing a Chevrolet to a Bentley... Sure the Chevy and the Bentley get ya from point A to point B... dang it if that Bentley aint nicer.
There are a lot of other breedables that have these things built in and do not require a HUD or other tool to use, and do way more things than Kittycats... just wanted to put that out there. If we want to judge a breedable based on features, KC aren't Bentleys...
RE: Develop a new, FREE use, Kittycats' Profiler and Market pages - Reven Rosca - 01-18-2017 06:29 PM
(01-18-2017 12:24 PM)JenniferShelby Resident Wrote: The first thing they need to do is create a data base! Then they need to find a provider to upload said data base! Then they have extra bandwidth and storage cost not to mention hosting fee's.
Umm.. They already have the database. It's called the cattery/pedigree, and they already have a provider. It's hosted right here on kittycats.ws
The extra bandwidth to serve the profilers that must be paid? Guess what? That's the bandwidth that the third party profilers use today, and they aren't paying for the services they take from KittyCats.
Perhaps it won't be as expensive as you think?
RE: Develop a new, FREE use, Kittycats' Profiler and Market pages - Pancake Littlepaws - 01-18-2017 09:25 PM
(01-18-2017 04:12 PM)Cloe Osterham Wrote: Jennifershelby, a profiler wouldn't need support tickets as it would function on it's own (unless you go with this new interactive one people are talking about). They would provide detailed instructions with their profiler just as with all other KC products. Space and hosting is not as expensive or complicated as you may think (they probably already have plenty of space). Advertisements are nothing more than the tiniest bit of code at the bottom, side, top or where ever they would so choose, if they would even want to do that (it wouldn't bother anyone so hopefully they would consider). I think KittyCats would prefer to provide a service to their customers that would hold up the integrity of their standards and cause less complaints. People in the community would not feel bullied or have to be fearful of their profilers being shut down (never happened to me, just stating facts). I think it would be a great idea for these reasons and I am sure Kitty Cats have this on their minds. I agree nothing is free nor should it be just for the time etc. The cost of the profilers would outweigh the intial setup, which again, not as complicated as you may think (at least not for the web programmers). I don't think there were a ton of support tickets for the other profiler. I think he may have had to help a few because of the auction feature. I don't think kc needs to make a complicated interactive profiler, rather a simple profiler that pulls from the database that already exists. Pretty much what's already being pulled from the other profilers.
(01-18-2017 11:14 AM)Lixy Byron Wrote:(01-18-2017 10:59 AM)HappyDaize Resident Wrote: .. and it would be entirely under Kittycats control. People would not be buying a product only to have it shut down & their $ wasted. The basic script to display pedigrees in world is already there, it's a matter of putting it into a nicely formatted display product. If KC were to do this, provide their own pedigree & traits profile board to their customers, then it eliminates a lot of the issues that apparently have frustrated so many people.
about "buyig a product only to have it shut down & their $ wasted" are still rumors, until i will see proofs
It did actually shut down for a few days and most of us who purchased them are not using them now because Callie has not given the okay for this.
She doesn't have to give the ok he removed her images which where infringed works! The names i am almost sure can't be copyrighted because they are technically real furs and due to there generic nature of them. At this point its completely ok to use the profilers! There nothing being infringed! As far as using the data from the servers goes! I don't see how that could be infringement because there is no terms regarding its use. its open to the public if he was bypassing some sort of security then thats another ball game... but with out a terms of use and with out any type of security or encryption. Then that information is free to be used how ever.
(01-18-2017 06:29 PM)Reven Rosca Wrote:(01-18-2017 12:24 PM)JenniferShelby Resident Wrote: The first thing they need to do is create a data base! Then they need to find a provider to upload said data base! Then they have extra bandwidth and storage cost not to mention hosting fee's.
Umm.. They already have the database. It's called the cattery/pedigree, and they already have a provider. It's hosted right here on kittycats.ws
The extra bandwidth to serve the profilers that must be paid? Guess what? That's the bandwidth that the third party profilers use today, and they aren't paying for the services they take from KittyCats.
Perhaps it won't be as expensive as you think?
They do yes and no they could upgrade the data base they have now thought.. not sure how viable that is where talking about adding a TON of information and then making it search able then having a system setup where it display's the cats to the general public + having a HTML interface anyone can get into! The pedigree we have now while amazing! is still kinda limited think about when you go to search for a cat in your own cattery... that kinda stuff wouldn't really work for a search able database people would expect more streamline and faster. It make more since to create a new data base even then. Someone needs to maintain it... there is increase storage and traffic cost... because a web market would be sending more data to and from the cats!! and people listing said cats and buying said cats... and the storage needed to hold the tables of what cats where for sale. It wouldn't be as simple as just tacking it on to what we have now. Its a lot to do from a working stand point. I really personally prefer to see Kittycats focus more on updating the tools we have letting someone else fill the void!.
RE: Develop a new, FREE use, Kittycats' Profiler and Market pages - Tad Carlucci - 01-19-2017 12:12 AM
From a network-traffic point of view, for KittyCats to provide a web-based in-world location service like the web market is actually less that the current system since it would not need the web-traffic from the third-party website collecting the required data. All web traffic from all prims in Second Life (not just our cats) already includes the location information. So, every time a cat/box 'calls home' (which happens fairly often) the location is always already present.
From a prim-use point of view, the system is less than the current system since there would be no need for the profiler.
Technically, almost any system provided by KittyCats would be superior in almost every way.
However, from the very beginning, KittyCats has always stated their policy is to stay away from the secondary markets. Creating a location service such as the web market moves them closer to those secondary markets.
It's not a technical question at all; it's philosophical: does KittyCatS want be take a much larger role in the secondary markets?
So, while the current profiler/website system is quite inferior to what KittyCatS could provide, the question is: should KittyCatS maintain their hands-off policy and let others deal with the secondary markets?
RE: Develop a new, FREE use, Kittycats' Profiler and Market pages - Draco Nacht - 01-19-2017 12:18 AM
I'm not entirely sure why KittyCats would owe anyone a "gesture of goodwill" for the poor behavior of a third-party vendor. Especially when the product that was being offered, particularly when it came to adding prices, is counter to how they've run KittyCats from the start. There's a reason why we don't talk pricing or do spam in main chat. They want to foster a community, not necessarily prioritize reselling. I've met some of my best SL friends through KittyCats.
RE: Develop a new, FREE use, Kittycats' Profiler and Market pages - Script Hyun - 01-19-2017 03:34 AM
When looking into databases and increasing amounts.. Don't forget, KittyCats has the biggest database, all the profilers database or other databases do is grabbing info from the kittycats website (scraping).
So they cause traffic to the website of Kc's grabbing that info, putting it into their databases and then displaying it towards others.
Extra traffic? It just stays the same, now programs make the connection to the website instead of users, to grab the same content a user would see in his viewer.
The only extra field added is the price field. That's it..
RE: Develop a new, FREE use, Kittycats' Profiler and Market pages - Alassariah Resident - 01-19-2017 09:25 AM
I wonder; does the secondary market truly need KittyCats! to change their philosophy and put more work in to providing a profiler/market service for us?
I started KittyCats! on the LL Beta Viewer with no profiler/website. I had an old computer which could not handle the Firestorm Viewer with the Area Search feature and did indeed buy the profiler program being recently discussed. When I input the information and sent it to the web market and would have a potential buyer appear within seconds, yes, it functioned well (for me).
In time, the ever-increasing cattery lag and kitty errors became annoying. I did everything I could to try to decrease lag on my end, including purchasing better internet from my provider and a high-end gaming computer after my old one went kaput. The lag kept getting worse, and I do not know if it had anything to do with the increasing number of support tickets I've had to file or not but I noticed the issue along with the growing lag.
My new computer has the Firestorm Viewer, I have taken the profilers down, and in an experiment the other day, I wanted to see how long it would take me to find a new trait I do not have and had the Lindens to purchase (L$2400+); without using Firestorm's Area Search feature or the profiler's web market. In this experiment, I deliberately avoided any shops with profilers, just to make it interesting shopping the old-fashioned way, clicking on each and every box.
I went to a popular market, panning my camera to look at boxes near where I landed. After exhausting this area, I double-clicked and ported to a new search area on the same sim. Within seconds, I found a Sporty tail and bought it.
I spent about (I'm going to be generous here) 20 minutes looking around and left with a new trait I did not have.
I may not generate any sales without the profiler/web market, but I can still breed kitties and go trait shopping. This has been a wonderful community in SL and I hope all of this controversy does not change that fact.
RE: Develop a new, FREE use, Kittycats' Profiler and Market pages - Cloe Osterham - 01-19-2017 12:45 PM
(01-18-2017 09:25 PM)JenniferShelby Resident Wrote:(01-18-2017 04:12 PM)Cloe Osterham Wrote: Jennifershelby, a profiler wouldn't need support tickets as it would function on it's own (unless you go with this new interactive one people are talking about). They would provide detailed instructions with their profiler just as with all other KC products. Space and hosting is not as expensive or complicated as you may think (they probably already have plenty of space). Advertisements are nothing more than the tiniest bit of code at the bottom, side, top or where ever they would so choose, if they would even want to do that (it wouldn't bother anyone so hopefully they would consider). I think KittyCats would prefer to provide a service to their customers that would hold up the integrity of their standards and cause less complaints. People in the community would not feel bullied or have to be fearful of their profilers being shut down (never happened to me, just stating facts). I think it would be a great idea for these reasons and I am sure Kitty Cats have this on their minds. I agree nothing is free nor should it be just for the time etc. The cost of the profilers would outweigh the intial setup, which again, not as complicated as you may think (at least not for the web programmers). I don't think there were a ton of support tickets for the other profiler. I think he may have had to help a few because of the auction feature. I don't think kc needs to make a complicated interactive profiler, rather a simple profiler that pulls from the database that already exists. Pretty much what's already being pulled from the other profilers.
(01-18-2017 11:14 AM)Lixy Byron Wrote:(01-18-2017 10:59 AM)HappyDaize Resident Wrote: .. and it would be entirely under Kittycats control. People would not be buying a product only to have it shut down & their $ wasted. The basic script to display pedigrees in world is already there, it's a matter of putting it into a nicely formatted display product. If KC were to do this, provide their own pedigree & traits profile board to their customers, then it eliminates a lot of the issues that apparently have frustrated so many people.
about "buyig a product only to have it shut down & their $ wasted" are still rumors, until i will see proofs
It did actually shut down for a few days and most of us who purchased them are not using them now because Callie has not given the okay for this.
She doesn't have to give the ok he removed her images which where infringed works! The names i am almost sure can't be copyrighted because they are technically real furs and due to there generic nature of them. At this point its completely ok to use the profilers! There nothing being infringed! As far as using the data from the servers goes! I don't see how that could be infringement because there is no terms regarding its use. its open to the public if he was bypassing some sort of security then thats another ball game... but with out a terms of use and with out any type of security or encryption. Then that information is free to be used how ever.
(01-18-2017 06:29 PM)Reven Rosca Wrote:(01-18-2017 12:24 PM)JenniferShelby Resident Wrote: The first thing they need to do is create a data base! Then they need to find a provider to upload said data base! Then they have extra bandwidth and storage cost not to mention hosting fee's.
Umm.. They already have the database. It's called the cattery/pedigree, and they already have a provider. It's hosted right here on kittycats.ws
The extra bandwidth to serve the profilers that must be paid? Guess what? That's the bandwidth that the third party profilers use today, and they aren't paying for the services they take from KittyCats.
Perhaps it won't be as expensive as you think?
They do yes and no they could upgrade the data base they have now thought.. not sure how viable that is where talking about adding a TON of information and then making it search able then having a system setup where it display's the cats to the general public + having a HTML interface anyone can get into! The pedigree we have now while amazing! is still kinda limited think about when you go to search for a cat in your own cattery... that kinda stuff wouldn't really work for a search able database people would expect more streamline and faster. It make more since to create a new data base even then. Someone needs to maintain it... there is increase storage and traffic cost... because a web market would be sending more data to and from the cats!! and people listing said cats and buying said cats... and the storage needed to hold the tables of what cats where for sale. It wouldn't be as simple as just tacking it on to what we have now. Its a lot to do from a working stand point. I really personally prefer to see Kittycats focus more on updating the tools we have letting someone else fill the void!.
JenniferShelby, I guess the difference for me is a matter of respect for all of the people in the community and kittycats. If there are people in this great community that are being verbally abused, mistreated, etc. by a third party vendor, why would I want to support that? I would rather support a product that is streamlined directly from the source and one that I know would always be available for use. This was all about profit and before you tell me it wasn't...then why is he not a breeder in kc? If you are making a product to benefit the community you would most likely be involved in the community. I would not make a product, treat some of my customers terrible, and then expect them to keep eating crow. This is why kittycats stepped in because it takes from the community and they do not want to see their customers treated like this. I am not going to get into that talk because that is between kittycats and the third party vendor, but the product is from the kittycats database period. If the company finds that a third party is hurting their business and being abusive towards customers then they have the right to step in at this point. It is their product and they have the right to do everything in their power to protect the integrity of their product and their customers. I breed kittycats, so if they come out publicly and state they do not support this product, or it's use, then I will not use it because my support is for kittycats. I would be happy if they made a profiler of their own and I would be just fine if they didn't. Kittycats did fine before the profilers and I believe they will do just fine after them. You keep talking about traffic and storage costs and most of this cost is already there. I am sure kittycats have plenty of bandwidth for the traffic and storage. This traffic is flowing constantly on the website as it is. You are making this sound so complicated when really it is not. I think kittycats could focus on both of these things you speak of. The updates are already amazing! The information is already there and can be pulled for a simple profiler with ease. They do not even need to get into the secondary market if they make a simple profiler that has the cat and its location, this is already there. No price needed. Add an additional page with a nice search feature. They can add a field to the database so im not sure where you came to that conclusion. Think about the hub and the new features that were added. It would be faster and more streamlined coming from the source. You do not need to have a whole new database and as far as being maintained....it already is.
RE: Develop a new, FREE use, Kittycats' Profiler and Market pages - Rene Marseille - 01-19-2017 01:28 PM
(01-19-2017 12:45 PM)Cloe Osterham Wrote: JenniferShelby, I guess the difference for me is a matter of respect for all of the people in the community and kittycats. If there are people in this great community that are being verbally abused, mistreated, etc. by a third party vendor, why would I want to support that? I would rather support a product that is streamlined directly from the source and one that I know would always be available for use. This was all about profit and before you tell me it wasn't...then why is he not a breeder in kc? If you are making a product to benefit the community you would most likely be involved in the community. I would not make a product, treat some of my customers terrible, and then expect them to keep eating crow. This is why kittycats stepped in because it takes from the community and they do not want to see their customers treated like this. I am not going to get into that talk because that is between kittycats and the third party vendor, but the product is from the kittycats database period. If the company finds that a third party is hurting their business and being abusive towards customers then they have the right to step in at this point.
Please let's not spread rumors here and call it fact. It's easy to accuse someone with such things and I have no time to answer to all of them to tell this is not true, that is not true, and try to prove it. I told my opinion to a few posts and I hope there are mostly smart people here who understand what is really going on. The real bullies are you and people like you and probably kittycats is involved in all this, they probably do a lot to manipulate people to reach their goals. I am still keeping this service because I know that most of the breeders are nice people. Unfortunately the few haters are the ones who bark the most.
Anyways .. the profiler is updated. I made a version without pictures. And the website has no pictures now. They are now as legal as they can be. Click update in the profiler menu to get the new version.
Peace!
RE: Develop a new, FREE use, Kittycats' Profiler and Market pages - Cloe Osterham - 01-19-2017 02:24 PM
(01-19-2017 01:28 PM)Rene Marseille Wrote:(01-19-2017 12:45 PM)Cloe Osterham Wrote: JenniferShelby, I guess the difference for me is a matter of respect for all of the people in the community and kittycats. If there are people in this great community that are being verbally abused, mistreated, etc. by a third party vendor, why would I want to support that? I would rather support a product that is streamlined directly from the source and one that I know would always be available for use. This was all about profit and before you tell me it wasn't...then why is he not a breeder in kc? If you are making a product to benefit the community you would most likely be involved in the community. I would not make a product, treat some of my customers terrible, and then expect them to keep eating crow. This is why kittycats stepped in because it takes from the community and they do not want to see their customers treated like this. I am not going to get into that talk because that is between kittycats and the third party vendor, but the product is from the kittycats database period. If the company finds that a third party is hurting their business and being abusive towards customers then they have the right to step in at this point.
Please let's not spread rumors here. It's easy to accuse someone with such things and I have no time to answer to all of them to tell this is not true, that is not true, and try to prove it. I told my opinion to a few posts and I hope there are mostly smart people here who understand what is really going on. The real bullies are you and people like you and probably kittycats is involved in all this, they probably do a lot to manipulate people to reach their goals. I am still keeping this service because I know that most of the breeders are nice people. Unfortunately the few haters are the ones who bark the most.
Anyways .. the profiler is updated. I made a version without pictures. And the website has no pictures now. They are now as legal as they can be. Click update in the profiler menu to get the new version.
Peace!
Rene, I have never had interaction with you and you make it quite clear in your post what kind of person you are. You call me a bully because I have an opinion and I say that I support kittycats. Your product is based on kittycats product. There has been plenty of proof of you bullying people I am sure, and I have personally had ims from people you treated very bad. This is besides the point as I was saying I agree that kittycats should make a profiler. You call kittycats bullies because they want to protect the integrity of their product...not yours, which is completely riding the coattail of theirs. If you want to make a product to go along with another companys product fine....but you should also respect the customers just like that company would.