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+--- Thread: Technical Breeding Tips and Advice (/showthread.php?tid=5162)
RE: Breeders Tips Tricks and Advice - Kayleigh McMillan - 09-22-2012 06:06 PM
An offspring right from the starter is pure in my book and if you know the cat you breed it with and it gives you the same fur or the hidden fur of the starter's partner you have a pure hidden (the hidden fur of the starter).
If you make two full siblings with this starter which you breed with eachother or back breed it to the starter when it has the other gender and it gives the hidden fur it is a pure fur.
And as long as the offspring in this line doesn't meet a more recessive cat/ fur this breeding line stays pure.
This prevents a lot of pain afterwards in trying to make a non pure cat pure eventhough it is possible ofcourse.
RE: Breeders Tips Tricks and Advice - Tad Carlucci - 09-22-2012 06:26 PM
Huh ?
RE: Breeders Tips Tricks and Advice - Devilness Chant - 09-22-2012 06:29 PM
I have to say Tad I'm a simple person and like to keep things on an easier level. I'm not a math person and find some of what you say a bit confusing, and some of it I can disagree on from personal experience. But we all have our own ways that work for us.
All I know is I've been breeding since just before Easter of 2011 and am still learning things. And thanks to a lot of dear friends who had the patience to help me and teach me along the way, I like to think that keeping it simple really helps. Especially for new ppl who may find all the info overwhelming at first.
Things like info on how we each may breed starters. Maybe ppl can ask questions and get answers here?
We all have our different advise, tips and tricks that we've picked up in our breeding experiences. And I was hoping we could all share.
Not the technical stuff behind it all.
RE: Breeders Tips Tricks and Advice - Charles Courtois - 09-22-2012 10:07 PM
An example illustrating Kayleigh's point:
I bred a Bengal Snow female to a male starter.
At a certain point I get a Bengal Snow female offspring back.
When she's old enough, I backbreed her to her starter father.
Suppose at some point, I get say, a female Ocicat Ebony Silver from the backbreed.
That will be a pure Ebony Silver.
Now, if I take the Ebony Silver & backbreed IT to the starter, every OS will hide Ebony Silver (on average, half will be gen fur over Ebony Silver, the rest will be pure Ebony Silver).
If I get a male Ebony Silver from that backbreed, & breed it to a female Ebony Silver derived from a backbreed, they will make more pure Ebony Silvers.
RE: Breeders Tips Tricks and Advice - Tad Carlucci - 09-22-2012 10:46 PM
Sorry for not reading the post about pures from starters better the first time. I now see what she's doing. Yes, that will produce a pure. As I think on it: the difference is the goal. With starters, you don't know what you're going to get but you can surely make whatever it is into a pure. My goal was to produce a specific pure. The approach is the same .. breed the kids together. And, in both cases, the pure you get will most definitely does not have parents showing its coat .. which runs contrary to the claimed "pure" you see so often out for sale which may, or may not, actually be pure.
RE: Breeders Tips Tricks and Advice - anna Acanthus - 09-22-2012 11:26 PM
(09-22-2012 06:26 PM)Tad Carlucci Wrote: Huh ?
Copycat
@ Dev . In fact i was'nt quite sure if you were talking about a known hidden or an unknown so i plumped for the known. Of course the odds against a cat passing it's recessive hidden as a hidden are much higher and especially continuously through a few generations therefore the odds are high for it NOT popping out again to spoil your carefully structured breeding plan.
RE: Breeders Tips Tricks and Advice - dakillakm Resident - 09-23-2012 12:38 AM
I can see how this sort of pure breeding within lines is super helpful when you want to make a specific kitty, like the Bengal Tawnys Kay sees in her future
I, however, am addicted to the surprise and excitement of figuring out the hiddens. When there aren't any hiddens, or they are intentionally buried to hopefully NOT pop out, it just doesn't seem as fun! Granted, this could just be because I'm still so new that I haven't developed my perfect dream liners yet. That being said, I am working with one line that is completely pure (i.e. in this case completely in-bred might be the better description) but even the goal of this line is to combine sibs to find out what some of the more illusive traits of mom and dad were. Perhaps a constant influx of new, excitable, surprise-addicted breeders like myself serves to keep the market fairly un-pure as you were describing Kay...
RE: Breeders Tips Tricks and Advice - Sara Franco - 09-23-2012 12:42 AM
(09-23-2012 12:38 AM)dakillakm Resident Wrote: I can see how this sort of pure breeding within lines is super helpful when you want to make a specific kitty, like the Bengal Tawnys Kay sees in her future
Perhaps a constant influx of new, excitable, surprise-addicted breeders like myself serves to keep the market fairly un-pure as you were describing Kay...
Same here
.I like to have different traits hidden too, it would be too boring to me to know exactly what to expect from the box, especially if more than one trait pure, if the fur only it is fine and useful of course.There should be a surprise to have fun!
RE: Breeders Tips Tricks and Advice - Kayleigh McMillan - 09-23-2012 06:20 AM
I agree everything pure is no fun at all.
I like indeed this Bengal Tawny pure and I have some breeding lines pure just so I can rely on them.
Such as my Black Russians and Snow Bengals and my plan is to do the same with my Bengal Tawny.
It helps ofcourse if we know our own cats and know a little about them at least that works well for me :-)
I love surprises as well and I even visit a love shack every so often to grab a male and female to breed them together without looking in their pedigree up front just to let them surprise me
RE: Breeders Tips Tricks and Advice - Tad Carlucci - 09-23-2012 06:37 AM
(09-22-2012 11:26 PM)anna acanthus Wrote: Of course the odds against a cat passing it's recessive hidden as a hidden are much higher and especially continuously through a few generations therefore the odds are high for it NOT popping out again to spoil your carefully structured breeding plan.
This is the sort of statement which gives me problems. The ODDS of it passing don't change: they are, and will always be 50/50.
What is probably meant, here, is that, if what is shown in both parents is fairly dominant, since there are a lot of things more recessive, it's likely the more recessive of the two hidden is far below them, and won't pop up for a while.
However, conversely, if what the parents show is fairly recessive, there's not a lot which can be more recessive to them, so their hidden traits must be pretty close to each other. So, exposing them both is pretty quick and easy.
To me, statements like the above are taking apples (the odds of a trait passing) and mixing them with oranges (the odds of it being in a starter).